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New ALS Prototype 1st Impressions

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jjptkd

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Post Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:00 pm

New ALS Prototype 1st Impressions

I haven't read anything about the new speakers yet. Did anyone get a chance to take a listen? Any thoughts you'd like to share? Looks like you all had a great time at the fest and I've enjoyed all the pictures and stories shared by all, thanks!! I'm thinking I may need to make an effort to attend next year.
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treitz3

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Post Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:32 pm

Too soon.

The imaging characteristics Bob had talked about in the videos was a pleasant and very unexpected surprise in a room that was completely unfit for his vision. They were also brand spankin' new with zero hours of burn in with anything associated with all of the parts that went into the set we heard. Also, the tube crossover that is planned for these speakers was not present at the time of the audition and Bob hasn't even had the first set he and Leslie voiced brought to Washington for voicing in proper surroundings. The potential for these speakers is off the charts but it is of my observations that the timeline for audition was pushed to the limit and it is too soon for an observation worthy of said speakers.

Basically, what I am saying is that the speakers were missing key components. They were in the worst acoustical environment possible. The crossover tweaking has not been properly done yet and the tubed crossover is still a vision at this point, not a reality we actually heard while we were there.

They were designed for an 8' ceiling for no floor or ceiling reflections that create distortion [refer to video]. The ceiling at CF was at least 30 to 35' tall with a loft about 12 feet out at a height of 12-14'. Wood floors, wood walls, glass directly behind them and stone to the right of them. They were never really "set up" with the Sumiko setup, Cardas setup or any other set up for optimum sound due to time constraints with the tube amp build that took up most of CF to begin with.

It is of my opinion that any observation should be taken with an extreme grain of salt, considering these factors. It's like testing a Corvette's handling ability on a track that has oil on it, rain and everything that can be stacked against it concerning handling......and then having the privy few offer their evaluation of said Corvette's handling abilities.

I am looking forward to hearing the completed product and next year Carverfest will be all about the music.
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

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Mr. M-500t

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Post Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:42 pm

Re: Too soon.

treitz3 wrote:The imaging characteristics Bob had talked about in the videos was a pleasant and very unexpected surprise in a room that was completely unfit for his vision. They were also brand spankin' new with zero hours of burn in with anything associated with all of the parts that went into the set we heard. Also, the tube crossover that is planned for these speakers was not present at the time of the audition and Bob hasn't even had the first set he and Leslie voiced brought to Washington for voicing in proper surroundings. The potential for these speakers is off the charts but it is of my observations that the timeline for audition was pushed to the limit and it is too soon for an observation worthy of said speakers.

Basically, what I am saying is that the speakers were missing key components. They were in the worst acoustical environment possible. The crossover tweaking has not been properly done yet and the tubed crossover is still a vision at this point, not a reality we actually heard while we were there.

They were designed for an 8' ceiling for no floor or ceiling reflections that create distortion [refer to video]. The ceiling at CF was at least 30 to 35' tall with a loft about 12 feet out at a height of 12-14'. Wood floors, wood walls, glass directly behind them and stone to the right of them. They were never really "set up" with the Sumiko setup, Cardas setup or any other set up for optimum sound due to time constraints with the tube amp build that took up most of CF to begin with.

It is of my opinion that any observation should be taken with an extreme grain of salt, considering these factors. It's like testing a Corvette's handling ability on a track that has oil on it, rain and everything that can be stacked against it concerning handling......and then having the privy few offer their evaluation of said Corvette's handling abilities.

I am looking forward to hearing the completed product and next year Carverfest will be all about the music.
And Sound ? Thanks for the pre-completion review Tom. I'm going to really try to make it next year.
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angelod307

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Post Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:57 pm

Re: New ALS Audition?

and with all that said tom, i thought they are nothing short of the majestic kind of speaker that will be a tribute and leap forward once again from the imagination and soul of bob carver in the amazing line up. they sound awesome even in a disaster of a room and so smooth with a 20 wpc tube amp that was built that just made them sing. i already can't wait for the next addition of them next year if not sooner in florida. very clean built to say the least.
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OconeeOrange

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Post Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:14 pm

Re: New ALS Audition?

Not an audiophile, but my thoughts are:

- They are very tall and impressive with the Star Wars feet.
- Instead of the big speakers at the bottom and the little speakers at the top, they are the same from top to bottom.
- The "s.w.e.e.t" spot covers a very large area.
- The sound is very big, kinda like a concert.
- The sound is detailed and clear.
- I sure wish I could afford them.

- As a side note, they were hooked to an excellent music server and incredible amps that I also cannot afford.
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Martin1970

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Post Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:30 pm

Re: New ALS Audition?

The ribbons in these sound very similar to Amazings of old, Plats and IIIs. That's a good thing because with like 7 million of them in a line array, it's probably possible to eq them to sound like just about anything you want. The midwoofers achieved the intended effect; like Ohms, they just disappear into the room. It would be interesting to see the T/S parameters on them. One has to wonder if the extrusions will be sealed, or open, and what the impact is of so many speakers in such close proximity. The problem with listening to them was that James always has some kind of JL product on hand, so all ya' want to do is play bass tracks. My apologies to the teenagers. It was inappropriate to play Bassgasm at 3AM. Glad the roof survived.
Kudos to the Sauters for bringing these things together in basically no time at all with finished product quality in what is essentially a prototype. The fit and finish, second to none. The bases are absolutely perfect, with feet hewn from solid metal stock. You can probably climb these things if you want. They look very sturdy. We've all seen the assembly process and these solve the problem of wide speakers taking up massive amounts of space. Heck, with covers on the front, they can almost be disguised as structural supports.
All that said, if I owned a pair, I'd triamp them: one channel to the ribbons, one channel to the left midwoofer line, one channel to the right midwoofer line (per speaker). I'd time-align the whole shebang based on where I put them in the room and knock the gain WAY back on the ribbons. I mean there's enough ribbon there to rupture your skull. Seriously. Rupture it. Bang. It's gone.
Ultimately, I have no idea what these speakers will sound like. None of us can, really. One thing's for sure. These things are going to be VERY dependent on room placement. It'll be interesting to see how that is addressed in the end product. I'm sure the Bobs can make something that sounds heavenly with all the quality materials and exceptional craftsmen involved with this product.
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Mr. M-500t

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Post Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:45 pm

Re: New ALS Audition?

Martin1970 wrote:The ribbons in these sound very similar to Amazings of old, Plats and IIIs. That's a good thing because with like 7 million of them in a line array, it's probably possible to eq them to sound like just about anything you want. The midwoofers achieved the intended effect; like Ohms, they just disappear into the room. It would be interesting to see the T/S parameters on them. One has to wonder if the extrusions will be sealed, or open, and what the impact is of so many speakers in such close proximity. The problem with listening to them was that James always has some kind of JL product on hand, so all ya' want to do is play bass tracks. My apologies to the teenagers. It was inappropriate to play Bassgasm at 3AM. Glad the roof survived.
Kudos to the Sauters for bringing these things together in basically no time at all with finished product quality in what is essentially a prototype. The fit and finish, second to none. The bases are absolutely perfect, with feet hewn from solid metal stock. You can probably climb these things if you want. They look very sturdy. We've all seen the assembly process and these solve the problem of wide speakers taking up massive amounts of space. Heck, with covers on the front, they can almost be disguised as structural supports.
All that said, if I owned a pair, I'd triamp them: one channel to the ribbons, one channel to the left midwoofer line, one channel to the right midwoofer line (per speaker). I'd time-align the whole shebang based on where I put them in the room and knock the gain WAY back on the ribbons. I mean there's enough ribbon there to rupture your skull. Seriously. Rupture it. Bang. It's gone.
Ultimately, I have no idea what these speakers will sound like. None of us can, really. One thing's for sure. These things are going to be VERY dependent on room placement. It'll be interesting to see how that is addressed in the end product. I'm sure the Bobs can make something that sounds heavenly with all the quality materials and exceptional craftsmen involved with this product.

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> I dare you to post this at that other site ! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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kingman

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Post Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:23 am

Re: New ALS Audition?

Don and I agreed that the sound stage was huge but above the usual listening height giving the impression you were in the first few rows of a concert looking up. They sound very nice as would be expected of anything that Bob would endorse or James would build. It will be interesting and exciting to hear them as they evolve from the prototype stage to the final version.
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TNRabbit

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Post Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:53 am

Re: New ALS Audition?

The build quality, as Martin noted, was EXCEPTIONAL. Of course, we've come to expect nothing less from James & company~ =D>

The bases are a work of art & functional to boot. They are VERY sturdy; surprisingly so for such tall speakers. They are also HEAVY as a MF...

I made some initial observations in another thread but can't put my finger on it right now. Essentially, GIANT sound stage, the ability to soak up astounding amounts of power with clarity & THEY JUST KEEP GETTING LOUDER! I can't fathom what they would be able to do with 2,000 watt monoblock amps~

I had an opportunity @ 2-3 a.m. in the morning to play around with the EQ a little. Necessary tweaking depends HEAVILY on how far back in the listening position you are. As Tom noted, the room here was a horrific place to try to get everything "just so" but even so the potential here is enormous. IMO, the first thing that needs to be done is to correct the mismatch between the woofers & the ribbons; there is a LOT more ribbon shrieking at you (in a good way) than woofer...they are just loafing. These need to be brought more in line with the sound of the CRM-2s, again, IMO.

James told me the straight impedance of the 22 woofers before the crossover was @ 2.6 ohms (correct me if I'm wrong here, James), which I believe is way too low & I think there needs to be a change in the wiring to fix this. I'm sure Bob will tell me if I'm full of shit here~

ANYWAY, I feel very privileged to have had the opportunity to play with them on a variety of music ("Swap Meet Louie" was particularly impressive~ :lol: ) & just to listen to the prototypes prior to final design was a rare treat I don't think I'll ever have again in this lifetime.

Thanks to Bob & James for all their hard work to pull off getting these done in RECORD time so we could salivate over them. James, If you'd just had the tubes connected to them, I'm sure we could have damaged your Fathom 112 trying to keep up~ :shock: :D
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Don

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Post Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:35 am

Re: New ALS Audition?

kingman wrote:Don and I agreed that the sound stage was huge but above the usual listening height giving the impression you were in the first few rows of a concert looking up. They sound very nice as would be expected of anything that Bob would endorse or James would build. It will be interesting and exciting to hear them as they evolve from the prototype stage to the final version.



As Wayne and I discussed, the soundstage depth and width IMHO compete with the best of them, even in the horrible listening environment Tom described in his post. The height of the soundstage was a little high for my tastes. The high soundstage height was by design. Bob mentioned he worked hard to raise it. I don't want to give away any proprietary info Bob shared with me, but in discussing Soundstage height, mentioned he can make it easily adjustable by the user, which I believe he may consider. I like the Jazz Club/Coffee House height where the instruments are just above ear level and the performers are at a similar elevation standing on the floor in front of you. Hey, but that's me and everyone has an opinion, rightly or wrongly.

I, like Tom, am eagerly awaiting the final product, as this was a working prototype. Bob's early opinion, "I am about 30% there." Can't wait to hear the remaining 70% added to the mix.

IMHO, this will be a very special speaker in the marketplace, as were/are his previous ALS's, which, as we all know, have stood the test of time.

PS As a result of my conversation with Bob regarding the Soundstage height, when he signed the transformer for my tube amp build, guess what he put? Don, "Elevate that Soundstage". Bob's too funny! :lol: :lol: :lol:
I requested, Bob, "Lower that Soundstage" but he was the one with the Gold pen in his hand for some reason. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Toy Maker

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Post Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:00 am

Re: New ALS Prototype 1st Impressions

I moved, and edited this thread, so it's easier to find
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SHUT UP AND ENJOY THE MUSIC!
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angelod307

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Post Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:24 pm

Re: New ALS Prototype 1st Impressions

any news from bob on the tube eq prototype? i ready when ever for tested? \:D/
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megasat16

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Post Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:47 am

Re: New ALS Prototype 1st Impressions

Call me skeptical but I do have a lot of doubt in the new ALS design. May be Mr. Carver is making a break through in speaker design but might as well be a bust. I hope I am wrong. :-k
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Toy Maker

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Post Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:14 am

Re: New ALS Prototype 1st Impressions

megasat16 wrote:Call me skeptical but I do have a lot of doubt in the new ALS design. May be Mr. Carver is making a break through in speaker design but might as well be a bust. I hope I am wrong. :-k


You're probably right, I bet they do as poorly as all his other speaker designs.
Whatever you do in life will be insignificant, but it's very important that you do it... because nobody else will.

‎~You think Einstein walked around thinkin' everyone was a bunch of dumb shits?~

SHUT UP AND ENJOY THE MUSIC!
╭∩╮(︶︿︶)╭∩╮
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megasat16

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Post Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:14 pm

Re: New ALS Prototype 1st Impressions

Toy Maker wrote:
megasat16 wrote:Call me skeptical but I do have a lot of doubt in the new ALS design. May be Mr. Carver is making a break through in speaker design but might as well be a bust. I hope I am wrong. :-k


You're probably right, I bet they do as poorly as all his other speaker designs.


I can see the sarcasm there but does this speaker looks like any similarity to any of the other Bob's speaker design?

Besides, don't you have the speakers with you so you can chime in a bit to how they sounds or it's top secret mission there?
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