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Post here and let us know you made it home safely

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beemers417

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!! CarverFest Evictee !!

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Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:05 pm

Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Post Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:04 am

Re: Post here and let us know you made it home safely

Eddie wrote:I am home safe and sound! The CWB tryed to get a ride from me at the first VA rest stop going north!!!!!

Eddie "the knife" You know better. Stay away from that CWB!
Gunter the wonder dog is watching you...
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angelod307

SILVER-7 TUBE AMP

Posts: 2610

Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:56 pm

Location: manning, sc

Post Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:53 am

Re: Post here and let us know you made it home safely

Bunni wrote:Anders said someone took a pic of him with Bob...if whomever you are would please post that. I'd be eternally grateful :D


i have many of him and all that are there...
CarverFest: I just go for the arts and crafts
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TNRabbit

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(pair of) SILVER-7 TUBE AMPs

Posts: 13258

Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:53 am

Location: TN Native Languishing in VA

Post Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:45 am

Re: Post here and let us know you made it home safely

OconeeOrange wrote:
angelod307 wrote:

Angelo, screw that, get some pics up.


I have a few of you and others. I will get some up this week. Who has the one of The Bob Father with my wine? That photo might make for a good label - :lol:


You mean these, Bill?

Image

Image
TNRabbit
Image

From FrankieD's lips to your ears: Sunfire - a quiet box of endless power.

Sunfire TG-IV/400~7 Amp
Carver SD/A-360 CDP
Benchmark DAC-1
Sony SACD/DVD-A
Active bi-amp: Ashly XR-1001 & 2 Rane PEQ-15s
Main: HotRodded AL-IIIs
Sub: Klipsch RT-12d
Center: Sunfire CRS-3c
Surround: Sunfire CRS-3 (x 2)

OconeeOrange wrote:"Gary likes to play it 'loud' as do I. His system begs you turn it up until you die"

RIP WIlliam B. Dibble, 1948-2012. I'll miss you my friend.
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Toy Maker

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Puppet Master

Posts: 6382

Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 1:26 am

Post Wed Sep 21, 2011 4:13 am

Re: Post here and let us know you made it home safely

Well we stayed an extra day. Left at 2:30 pm Tuesday. Dropped Roy at home in Tampa at exactly 2:30 am wednesday. And got hone at 5:00 am in Cape Coral. 14:30 drive and not a single hitch.
Well it's sleepy time for me. See you guys online later tonight.
Whatever you do in life will be insignificant, but it's very important that you do it 'cause nobody else will

‎~You think Einstein walked around thinkin' everyone was a bunch of dumb shits?~

SHUT UP AND ENJOY THE MUSIC!
╭∩╮(︶︿︶)╭∩╮
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Bunni

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Newbie

Posts: 25

Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:23 pm

Location: Gorgoroth

Post Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:07 am

Re: Post here and let us know you made it home safely

Anxious to know if Brian made it home ok...Anders did thanks to him :)
Bunni

Tim: Well, that's no ordinary rabbit.
King Arthur: Ohh.
Tim: That's the most foul, cruel, and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on!
Sir Robin: You tit! I soiled my armor I was so scared!
Tim: Look, that rabbit's got a vicious streak a mile wide! It's a killer!
Yeah...I'm that Bunni
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BrianT

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Pair of Silver Sevens

Posts: 1295

Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 4:51 pm

Location: Ottawa, Canada

Post Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:30 pm

Re: Post here and let us know you made it home safely

Bunni wrote:Anxious to know if Brian made it home ok...Anders did thanks to him :)


Bunni.

I made it back to Ottawa, around 1:15 am total return distance 3867km.

Stayed in bed until 9:00am and then started to unpack.

Set up my Silver 7's tube amps to find they both have hum's in them with or without RCA line feed connected, any idea's ?

They do sound very, very nice, a good purchase.

Hope to see you all next year.

Brian.
VPI Classic Turntable (blk)
Transfiguration Phoenix Cartridge
Sunfire Vacuum Tube Control Centre. C/W Mod'ed Phono Stage
Carver Silver 7's Tube Amps
Raysonic CD-168 CDP (silver)
Carver TX11.
B&W 802D's Rosenut
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Chauss

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(pair of) SILVER-7t's

Posts: 2220

Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 4:35 pm

Location: In my own little world.....

Post Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:16 pm

Re: Post here and let us know you made it home safely

BrianT wrote:
Bunni wrote:Anxious to know if Brian made it home ok...Anders did thanks to him :)


Bunni.

I made it back to Ottawa, around 1:15 am total return distance 3867km.

Stayed in bed until 9:00am and then started to unpack.

Set up my Silver 7's tube amps to find they both have hum's in them with or without RCA line feed connected, any idea's ?

They do sound very, very nice, a good purchase.

Hope to see you all next year.

Brian.


Brian,
Are you running "conditioned" power source? It sounds like it may be a ground loop....maybe try a 2 prong adapter to eliminate ground and see if that helps? If not--send them here and I will investigate for you,,,it may take until next CarverFest to get them back to you though! :lol: Keep us posted as to your progress!
Image
Good sound—like good music, good wine and good fellowship—is meant to be shared.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" Albert Einstein
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BrianT

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Pair of Silver Sevens

Posts: 1295

Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 4:51 pm

Location: Ottawa, Canada

Post Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:28 pm

Re: Post here and let us know you made it home safely

Chauss wrote:Brian,
Are you running "conditioned" power source? It sounds like it may be a ground loop....maybe try a 2 prong adapter to eliminate ground and see if that helps? If not--send them here and I will investigate for you,,,it may take until next CarverFest to get them back to you though! :lol: Keep us posted as to your progress!


Dan.

No power conditioner, separate 15 amp dedicated circuits for each amp.

I removed the ground wire from the receptacles, and the hum went away. I do not like running the receptacles as the line has no ground.
I will pick up a couple of the 2 prong adapter's. But it would be better to find the cause of the ground loop.

As I have solved for the moment, I do not think that I have to send them to you to check out :D :D :D

Brian
VPI Classic Turntable (blk)
Transfiguration Phoenix Cartridge
Sunfire Vacuum Tube Control Centre. C/W Mod'ed Phono Stage
Carver Silver 7's Tube Amps
Raysonic CD-168 CDP (silver)
Carver TX11.
B&W 802D's Rosenut
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Chauss

User avatar

(pair of) SILVER-7t's

Posts: 2220

Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 4:35 pm

Location: In my own little world.....

Post Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:51 pm

Re: Post here and let us know you made it home safely

Good deal Brian! Sounds like there may be a power conditioner in your future... :D Even those little APC units at the cabins would work for that- the battery in the UPS "filters" the power- they were selling them for @ $100.

I have 2 x 20A dedicated circuits here that they would run splendidly on. :D :D :D
If you want to read up on the topic:
http://blueguitar.org/new/articles/other/ground_loop.pdf

Cheers!~
Image
Good sound—like good music, good wine and good fellowship—is meant to be shared.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" Albert Einstein
<<

BrianT

User avatar

Pair of Silver Sevens

Posts: 1295

Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 4:51 pm

Location: Ottawa, Canada

Post Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:45 am

Re: Post here and let us know you made it home safely

Chauss wrote:Good deal Brian! Sounds like there may be a power conditioner in your future... :D Even those little APC units at the cabins would work for that- the battery in the UPS "filters" the power- they were selling them for @ $100.

http://blueguitar.org/new/articles/other/ground_loop.pdf

Cheers!~


Dan.

Thanks for the link, its interesting reading.

I do have a power conditioner for all the other equipment preamp, turntable, CDP, tuner, it's an APC H15
I ran the Cherry 260;s tube amps in the same dedicated circuit with no problems, all I did was remove the Cherry 260's and install
the Silver 7's Thats when the hum started.
Looks like purchasing the 2 pin adaptors will solve it, thats the way I will be going.

Brian
VPI Classic Turntable (blk)
Transfiguration Phoenix Cartridge
Sunfire Vacuum Tube Control Centre. C/W Mod'ed Phono Stage
Carver Silver 7's Tube Amps
Raysonic CD-168 CDP (silver)
Carver TX11.
B&W 802D's Rosenut
<<

TNRabbit

User avatar

(pair of) SILVER-7 TUBE AMPs

Posts: 13258

Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:53 am

Location: TN Native Languishing in VA

Post Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:55 am

Re: Post here and let us know you made it home safely

CAUTION:

There are multiple reasons why modern electrical wiring is done so that there are separate wires for neutral and ground. Two most important reasons are the following:

1. Safety

When there are separate wires for neutral and ground it is much less likely that a problem in electrical wiring causes a dangerous situation which will cause electrical shock or fire.
If the ground and neutral were the same conductor, the cutting only the neutral wire (for example by accident) would cause the grounded metal case of the equipment to be on mains potential just because there is only live connected to equipment and that voltage can go through the equipment to the cut neutral cable and from there to equipment case.
When ground and neutral are separate, then cut neutral causes only the equipment to stop working and no dangerous situation. If ground gets cut by accident, there is no danger caused before some equipment gets damaged. So when there is separate wires for neutral and ground, a singe wire fault (cut or short circuit to other wire) on any wire going to outlet does not cause immediate danger to the user of the equipment:
l
Live shorted to ground or neutral: fuse blows immediatly. When fuse is blown then the dangers of electricity are gone.
l
Neutral shorted to ground: No immediate danger to use, just nasty ground loop problems start to occur. If there is GFCI or other ground leakage detector in wiring, it will cut the power to the outlet.
l
Live or neutral cut: Equipment just stops getting the power
l
Ground wire cut: The safety ground to equipment is lost.It continues to work nicely and there is no danger as long as there is no fault inside the equipment. Potentially as dangerous situation as using ungrounded outlet in same place, bur no immediate danger.
So any single failure does not cause great danger. So the for safety sense separate ground and neutral wires are a very good idea.

2. Minimizing the ground potential differences between outlet grounds

In an ideal repeat grounding wire system there is no current flowing in ground wire network, so there is no voltage difference between grounds on different outlets. Unfortunately in real life systems there is always some current leaking to ground, but that current is very small (only probably milliamperes) compared to the current flowing on line and neutral wires (usually amperes).
If the neutral and ground were shared on same wire, the current flowing on neutral wire would easily cause a large voltage difference (up to many volts) on different outlets grounds. The ground potential on any outlet will then depend on the load current, neutral wire resistance and the mains phase it is connected to.

Conclusion

For the conclusion we can say that separate ground and neutral conductors are a very good thing in providing good electrical wiring security and minimizing ground potential difference between different outlets. So it is no wonder why modern electrical wiring regulations call for this arrangement in many applications.
TNRabbit
Image

From FrankieD's lips to your ears: Sunfire - a quiet box of endless power.

Sunfire TG-IV/400~7 Amp
Carver SD/A-360 CDP
Benchmark DAC-1
Sony SACD/DVD-A
Active bi-amp: Ashly XR-1001 & 2 Rane PEQ-15s
Main: HotRodded AL-IIIs
Sub: Klipsch RT-12d
Center: Sunfire CRS-3c
Surround: Sunfire CRS-3 (x 2)

OconeeOrange wrote:"Gary likes to play it 'loud' as do I. His system begs you turn it up until you die"

RIP WIlliam B. Dibble, 1948-2012. I'll miss you my friend.
<<

TNRabbit

User avatar

(pair of) SILVER-7 TUBE AMPs

Posts: 13258

Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:53 am

Location: TN Native Languishing in VA

Post Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:39 pm

Re: Post here and let us know you made it home safely

Dangerous method: break the mains ground connections

Logically you could think, you could eliminate ground loops by disconnecting the power-cord ground pins on all your gear. Some people might try to break the ground connection by cutting the grounding pin in the connector, using cheater plug, cutting the ground wire in equipment, taping over the grounding connector etc.

Do not do this. Removing the ground connection isn't right. It is against electrical safety regulations and potentially very dangerous. Removing ground connection can defeat the actions of your noise filter or spike protectors inside the equipments. If the ground connection is cut then a fault in the insulation inside equipment will cause dangerous voltages to the equipment case instead of burning a fuse. Removing the ground connection from the equipments which have it is dangerous, against electronic safety regulations and you risk damaging your equipment. Running without a power ground will not automatically electrocute you but will make this much more probable if something goes wrong in your system.
NEVER use a three wire to two wire adapter on ANY piece of audio gear where a human can POSSIBLY come into contact with it. You're asking for a nice 120v "signal" thru someone's body. Yes it MIGHT eliminate the hum, but there's a MUCH safer way to do the same thing.
TNRabbit
Image

From FrankieD's lips to your ears: Sunfire - a quiet box of endless power.

Sunfire TG-IV/400~7 Amp
Carver SD/A-360 CDP
Benchmark DAC-1
Sony SACD/DVD-A
Active bi-amp: Ashly XR-1001 & 2 Rane PEQ-15s
Main: HotRodded AL-IIIs
Sub: Klipsch RT-12d
Center: Sunfire CRS-3c
Surround: Sunfire CRS-3 (x 2)

OconeeOrange wrote:"Gary likes to play it 'loud' as do I. His system begs you turn it up until you die"

RIP WIlliam B. Dibble, 1948-2012. I'll miss you my friend.
<<

TNRabbit

User avatar

(pair of) SILVER-7 TUBE AMPs

Posts: 13258

Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:53 am

Location: TN Native Languishing in VA

Post Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:48 pm

Re: Post here and let us know you made it home safely

Proper audio cable connection methods are essential in getting hum free system. Rane technical note Sound System Interconnection is a very good source for information how the audio wiring between equipments should be connected. This is a well worth to read article.

http://www.rane.com/note110.html
TNRabbit
Image

From FrankieD's lips to your ears: Sunfire - a quiet box of endless power.

Sunfire TG-IV/400~7 Amp
Carver SD/A-360 CDP
Benchmark DAC-1
Sony SACD/DVD-A
Active bi-amp: Ashly XR-1001 & 2 Rane PEQ-15s
Main: HotRodded AL-IIIs
Sub: Klipsch RT-12d
Center: Sunfire CRS-3c
Surround: Sunfire CRS-3 (x 2)

OconeeOrange wrote:"Gary likes to play it 'loud' as do I. His system begs you turn it up until you die"

RIP WIlliam B. Dibble, 1948-2012. I'll miss you my friend.
<<

Martin1970

User avatar

TFM-25

Posts: 342

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 5:44 pm

Location: Savannah, GA

Post Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:03 pm

Re: Post here and let us know you made it home safely

TNRabbit wrote:Proper audio cable connection methods are essential in getting hum free system. Rane technical note Sound System Interconnection is a very good source for information how the audio wiring between equipments should be connected. This is a well worth to read article.

http://www.rane.com/note110.html


I love Rane, but this Rane note has always annoyed me (sorry Chris.)
Of course the best way is to use all balanced gear, but that's not going to happen with most sources.
Almost all great source gear in the analog domain is restricted to unbalanced.
If you want to pair this to all of the great pro amplifiers (including some Carver stuff) and processing equip, you have to go balanced.

While transformers are nice, they simply don't measure up to the sound quality standards many of us on this forum are used to. Using a well-designed active solution that takes an unbalanced signal and creates a true balanced output is BY FAR the best solution I've ever heard.

CASE IN POINT:
When I got home from Carverfest, I hooked up my RANE BB-44x unbalanced/balanced converter, there was a nasty hum. (this is referred to in the article as 'the next best right way to do it')

The only way I was able to get rid of it was with a homebrew opamp-based balancer designed by BillD. (active balancing is not mentioned in the article)

An interesting side-effect of this balancer is that it allows frequencies above 10kHz, unlike the Rane. Perhaps mine's defective.
Carver: ALS plat upgrades, TX-11a, C-9, C-1
Sunfire: Cinema Grand Sig 400 Seven x2
Rane: RPM88 26Z x3
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OconeeOrange

SILVER-7 TUBE AMP

Posts: 4478

Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:24 pm

Post Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:13 pm

Re: Post here and let us know you made it home safely

TNRabbit wrote:Dangerous method: break the mains ground connections

Logically you could think, you could eliminate ground loops by disconnecting the power-cord ground pins on all your gear. Some people might try to break the ground connection by cutting the grounding pin in the connector, using cheater plug, cutting the ground wire in equipment, taping over the grounding connector etc.

Do not do this. Removing the ground connection isn't right.


But it can often solve the problem and as most connections are behind several layers of safety - :-"

Back in the woods, often our last words are, "Hey watch this".
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