FAQ  •  Register   •  Gallery •  Login

It is currently Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:38 am

Do HDMI cables make any difference?

<<

treitz3

User avatar

"Julian"
"Julian"

Posts: 7746

Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:39 pm

Location: The tube lair in Charlotte, NC

Post Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:46 am

Re: Do HDMI cables make any difference?

Interesting. It should be noted that he sells HDMI's and other cables at whatever store he works at. Knowing that, I'm not quite sure how much trust I would have in his observations. I'm not saying that I completely discount his observations but.......
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to a good analogue reproduction.

Robert R. - "Did you see my North Korea analogy? I should have named it Carversite.kim"
<<

EndersShadow

User avatar

TFM-45

Posts: 639

Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:58 pm

Location: Indiana

Post Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:11 pm

Re: Do HDMI cables make any difference?

treitz3 wrote:Interesting. It should be noted that he sells HDMI's and other cables at whatever store he works at. Knowing that, I'm not quite sure how much trust I would have in his observations. I'm not saying that I completely discount his observations but.......


I agree, but worst case, get one try it out and if not return it. Personally my HT setup doesnt justify it. If I had an Oppo I would consider it, but with a cheap blu-ray player its not worth it.
<<

angelod307

SILVER-7 TUBE AMP

Posts: 2693

Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:56 pm

Location: manning, sc

Post Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:29 pm

Re: Do HDMI cables make any difference?

ypu know, it only seems right that if there is skin effect, capacitance and resistance issue's with all cables, then digital or not, there must be some kind of measurable difference even if it is not an audible or visual to the naked ear or eye with all different wires available. it only stands to reason, even though digital signal is either a on or off little bit of energy, the amount transmited or passed through the wire has to be in a direct effect with what you are asking. now on the sound thing, i am going to get a tube buffer and experiment with various analog and digital equipment to see if i like the effect. the ads say a phatter although not louder sound which is just fuller sounding.
CarverFest: I just go for the arts and crafts
<<

treitz3

User avatar

"Julian"
"Julian"

Posts: 7746

Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:39 pm

Location: The tube lair in Charlotte, NC

Post Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:41 pm

Re: Do HDMI cables make any difference?

The more I do research on this subject, it seems that there can be differences but not in my application. The differences only seem to come into play when working with longer distances [50 feet or more] and possibly whether or not you use a repeater for even longer applications. My HDMI cable is a 6 footer. Now, I will say that I have heard a difference between 2 HDMI cables the other week. One of them had no sound. It was a bad cable right out of the box. Other than that? I noticed absolutely no difference between the $40 or $50.00 HDMI that I was gonna return to Best Buy [forgot to do that in a timely manner ](*,) ] and the $3.00 one ordered off of Amazon. With the video or the sound. To my knowledge, they are both high speed cables.

All I'm really trying to do here is improve the sound coming off the Directv receiver. The HD receivers are quite a big jump up [audio wise] from the standard ones and I was just wondering if I could further improve upon the audio or not. The video I have is so good, I have NO complaints whatsoever and video isn't very high up on my list of priorities. Especially if I'm completely satisfied with what I've got.....just lookin' to improve the sound, if I can. The cable was the first thing that came into mind.
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to a good analogue reproduction.

Robert R. - "Did you see my North Korea analogy? I should have named it Carversite.kim"
<<

Magnaryder

User avatar

SILVER-7t

Posts: 1966

Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:00 am

Location: Bucyrus, Ohio

Post Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:41 am

Re: Do HDMI cables make any difference?

treitz3 wrote:All I'm really trying to do here is improve the sound coming off the Directv receiver. The HD receivers are quite a big jump up [audio wise] from the standard ones and I was just wondering if I could further improve upon the audio or not. The video I have is so good, I have NO complaints whatsoever and video isn't very high up on my list of priorities. Especially if I'm completely satisfied with what I've got.....just lookin' to improve the sound, if I can. The cable was the first thing that came into mind.



TOM, FWIW

your first 'bind' might be in the coax between the satellite dish and the receiver. some folks claim the digital link can affect the sound. being the meticulous dude you are, treat each connection like you would in 'Sparky'. is the throughput speed fast enough to deliver all of the data broadcast thru the dish to the receiver then thru your choice of RCAs on to whatever you are playing it back on? Since you have a myriad of ICs at home to play with AND since you already have a handle on how they react in your rig you can use that as a starting point to tweek the sound to your liking...... keep in mind these things weren't built with audio geeks in mind. Like Cds....either good and bad you are at the mercy of the recording engineer/producer/movie mogul and whatever. I have a TV card in my computer and run all of my video(except 8mm, LD and VHS) through it. I have alot of control over the picture and the sound that way.

I did see a little degradation earlier this year until we upgraded our 'net service to 50MBs per/s download speed. If the girls are doing homework we may have as many as 5 computers using alot of bandwidth running at once, and it was creating a bottleneck slowing download speeds. It was noticeable on a few channels in the lower band running all digital content.

I haven't noticed many new DVD/Blu-ray movies lately that are THX certified. The one good thing they did was standardize minimum specs for soundtracks. Most of those soundtracks were really quite good. TNRabbit brought me a PILE of LDs at CF'11, most of which were THX. The sound on them is incredible. Much better than the DVD/Blu-ray of the same title. I have probably 300 DVD movies...not a one is THX. I smell a fucking coming when the next BIG THING comes down the pike. 3D Blu-ray, 2660(in the works I understand) THX, and ged knows what else.

I AM at least as picky about the video as I am the sound....I want the picture to be as good as it can get. I look at NFL Films to make video choices. Digital shearing and jitter are quite evident if the processor speed of the receiver or player aren't up to the task.

I'm watching a Blu-ray of Farscape season 1 right now at 2560X1600 on a Samsung 2220SME monitor. the picture is incredible. But the sound from my Asus Zonar STX audio card is off the hook. I had my AKG phones rewired with AQ cable(the TerrorTwinz pulled the old cable out of the plug) so I can play movies and not wake the house or run 7.1 surround through the home rig....when I'm actually home. I love my computer!!!!! I might be upgrading my computer rig. I'm really digging the new AMD 3.6Ghz 8 core processor and the 990FX chipset.

Tom, look at the specs of your DTV receiver. If IIRC they(movie studios) are using masking protocols to reduce the amount of data available for each channel of the sound track. There might not be all that much data to decode, affecting the sound.

ray
Magnaryder

Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.

Tim deParavicini's E.A.R. Yoshino V20 Integrated Amplifier, Fosgate Signature Phono pre, No. 50 and 51 Carverfest Tube amps, Hammond M3 tube amp, Ariston RD-40 Turntable w/ Linn Basik LSV tonearn, Grado Statement Master1 cartridge, Cardas Silver wire service and wire block, Carver TX-8 & 11 tuners, Carver TD-12 & 1700 decks, Tascam CC-222mkII CD recorder, Carver HR-742 reciever, DBX-3BX & 200xg & 120x, CarverAudio ALV prototypes, Alesis Studio One loudspeakers, Dahlquist DQ-8s, The Carver Research DarkStar Sub and Stax Earspeakers.

THIS SPACE FOR RENT...helping the blind to hear, one valve at a time
<<

treitz3

User avatar

"Julian"
"Julian"

Posts: 7746

Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:39 pm

Location: The tube lair in Charlotte, NC

Post Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:47 pm

First off, thanks for getting back to me on this. Much appreciated. :wink:

Magnaryder wrote:...your first 'bind' might be in the coax between the satellite dish and the receiver. some folks claim the digital link can affect the sound. being the meticulous dude you are, treat each connection like you would in 'Sparky'. is the throughput speed fast enough to deliver all of the data broadcast thru the dish to the receiver then thru your choice of RCAs on to whatever you are playing it back on?

The only thing I have there is what came installed in the house to begin with. That's just your plain ol' RG6 cable. I didn't even know there was an upgrade to that. Just to clarify a bit more, that is what you were referring too.....correct?

Magnaryder wrote:Since you have a myriad of ICs at home to play with AND since you already have a handle on how they react in your rig you can use that as a starting point to tweek the sound to your liking...... keep in mind these things weren't built with audio geeks in mind. Like Cds....either good and bad you are at the mercy of the recording engineer/producer/movie mogul and whatever.

That much I have already done. I have a set of AQ King Cobra's running from the TV to the rig. Everything else upstream is connected via an HDMI cable and I can definitely tell that it's dependent on the original. Even the same program on a different channel can make or break the quality of the picture and/or sound.

Magnaryder wrote: I have a TV card in my computer and run all of my video(except 8mm, LD and VHS) through it. I have alot of control over the picture and the sound that way.

This is something that, without a lot of money, I can not do. I would have to run everything wireless from the 'puter to the TV [opposite sides of the LR on a concrete slab] and I also have an ancient 'puter. The damn thing is barely hanging on after 12 years of usage *keeps fingers crossed*. Maybe after a significant computer upgrade could I explore that option. With what I currently have, I doubt my processor could even handle a video card upgrade.

Magnaryder wrote:Tom, look at the specs of your DTV receiver. If IIRC they(movie studios) are using masking protocols to reduce the amount of data available for each channel of the sound track. There might not be all that much data to decode, affecting the sound.
I wouldn't know where to begin to even look for the spec's on the unit I have. I will try, though. I do not have a surround system, just two channel. That's all I really desire for right now, in this house and in my current situation. I'm just looking to improve the sound that I currently am getting.

I do notice that the DTV receiver has an Ethernet connection, HDMI, SATA, USB, digital audio out and an optical out. This also has the RCA outs, that actually sound worse when directly hooked up to the Dodd pre, then when I hooked it up via HDMI to the TV and TV to the Dodd via the King Cobras. Honestly, I don't even know which D/A converter I am using right now. It's either the TV's or the DTV receiver. I would imagine it's the TV's with the way I have it hooked up.
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to a good analogue reproduction.

Robert R. - "Did you see my North Korea analogy? I should have named it Carversite.kim"
<<

Magnaryder

User avatar

SILVER-7t

Posts: 1966

Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:00 am

Location: Bucyrus, Ohio

Post Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:51 pm

Re: Do HDMI cables make any difference?

Tom, follow this link....

http://www.lunashops.com/goods.php?id=1355

ray
Magnaryder

Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.

Tim deParavicini's E.A.R. Yoshino V20 Integrated Amplifier, Fosgate Signature Phono pre, No. 50 and 51 Carverfest Tube amps, Hammond M3 tube amp, Ariston RD-40 Turntable w/ Linn Basik LSV tonearn, Grado Statement Master1 cartridge, Cardas Silver wire service and wire block, Carver TX-8 & 11 tuners, Carver TD-12 & 1700 decks, Tascam CC-222mkII CD recorder, Carver HR-742 reciever, DBX-3BX & 200xg & 120x, CarverAudio ALV prototypes, Alesis Studio One loudspeakers, Dahlquist DQ-8s, The Carver Research DarkStar Sub and Stax Earspeakers.

THIS SPACE FOR RENT...helping the blind to hear, one valve at a time
<<

treitz3

User avatar

"Julian"
"Julian"

Posts: 7746

Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:39 pm

Location: The tube lair in Charlotte, NC

Post Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:41 pm

Yeah, I thought that was the route I would have to take.

Does anybody on the forum have a DAC that's currently not in use I could play with for a stint? I'd buy one but I don't want to waste my money on something that wasn't built for audiophile sound in mind to begin with. Just curious to see if this would provide any kind of betterment to the DTV receiver. I would gladly pay for all shipping and insurance costs and I wouldn't need it for more than a day or two. All I'd like to do is find out if the audio can improve or whether I already have the best that it is capable of. Thought it wouldn't hurt to ask.

Right now it looks as if I am using the DAC that's in the TV, since the signal is digital through the HDMI cable. I would "think" that a TV would have a cheap DAC but it apparently ain't that bad if the sound is better coming out of that then straight out of the DAC in the DTV box using the analog outs. :-s
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to a good analogue reproduction.

Robert R. - "Did you see my North Korea analogy? I should have named it Carversite.kim"
<<

treitz3

User avatar

"Julian"
"Julian"

Posts: 7746

Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:39 pm

Location: The tube lair in Charlotte, NC

Post Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:51 pm

Well, I'll be damned. Maybe Mantis over at Club Polk was right and it wasn't just him being a "salesman". I'm referring to a post or link on page 1 of this thread to where he had actually heard a difference between the HDMI cables he was using. I have been researching the subject ever since I made this post rather hardcore just to see if I can get a better end result out of my DirecTv satellite receiver and today [just now], I ran across this article.

http://www.madronadigital.com/Library/D ... itter.html

What it explains in simpleton terms [that doesn't require a degree from MIT to understand] is the technicalities of jitter and how it affects things, the sources and different types of digital jitter and why it it important to us. As I was reading this, it became abundantly clear to me that it is entirely possible for HDMI cables to improve the sound. How? By reducing the cable induced jitter, which is basically an alteration of the waveform of the 1's and 0's. This makes it difficult to determine [since everything is not a perfect square] whether or not something is in fact a 1 or a zero when read after going through the cable.

Interesting article to me and while I may not have heard it first hand and while I may not have heard of or know anybody besides Mantis that has actually heard a difference in an HDMI cable, this article at the very least opens up to me that the possibility [mathematically and logically speaking] actually exists.

I will say that I do not believe that just an HDMI cable will improve the sound to the point I am looking for out of the DTV box [WAY too much ground to cover there...], it at least opens up the possibility that I'm not getting the best sound out of my Blu-Ray player and that I might want to start looking at my options when it comes time to start the upgrades on that part of my system.

I hope you all enjoy this article.
In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence.

The best way to enjoy digital music reproduction is to never listen to a good analogue reproduction.

Robert R. - "Did you see my North Korea analogy? I should have named it Carversite.kim"
<<

ekog

User avatar

TFM-6cb

Posts: 254

Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:50 am

Location: Northern Virginia

Post Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:21 pm

Re: Do HDMI cables make any difference?

The difference in HDMI cables really comes down to bandwidth, regardless of what some may think its just as important to have sufficient bandwidth for digital signals as it is for analog signals. To get the best possible audio and video I recommend getting at least an HDMI 1.4 compliant cable (watch out there are still some 1.3 compliant cables for sale out there) and go for the highest gage wire available for the cable length. Watch out for the brick and mortar stores they tend to sell what’s popular for their high-end stuff (read Monster Cable) and some off brand for their standard cables the problem with that being very limited options and were taking you to the bank prices. Don’t get me wrong the high-end stuff like Monster Cable is good stuff but in my opinion way over engineered and way to expensive for the return on your investment. There are a lot of stores online that offer excellent cables for a reasonable price (bluejeanscable, mycablemart for example) I recommend checking them out before hitting Amazon to to make sure you get the best deal on cable.
Main System Setup:
Pre: Carver C2 | Amp: Carver M-500t|Equilizer: Sansui SE99|Speakers: Polk SDA2’s
Source: Tuner: Carver TX-2| Phono: Technics SL-1210 MkII with a Ortofon VMS 20E Mk II| DirecTV DVR | Pioneer HLD-X9 Laserdisc player | Samsung DVD/VHS player

Second System Setup:
Receiver: Yamaha RXV867| Fronts: Klipsch F-30's |Sub: Klipsch SW-112
Source: Radio |Internet/Network | Sony CDP-70 CD player
Previous

Return to Carver Home (Theater)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

Powered by phpBB © 2011 phpBB Group.