60" Carver ribbons owned by $100 Craigslist Dahlquists.wth?

I recently bought some Dahlquist DQ-8 speakers on Craigslist after hearing (and loving) Jerry and Nikki's set at Carverfest.
I had planned on driving them with my Carverfest amps.

Amazing vs DQ8.jpg (161.79 KiB) Viewed 1220 times

but first...

Just for the heck of it, I hooked the Dahlquists into the system in place of the ribbons in the Amazings, using the actual wires that normally drive the ribbons. (I biamp)

What happened next was completely unexpected:

As soon as I turned them on, the sound suddenly came to life.
There was so much more impact in transients.
I found myself wanting to play air guitar and drums again.
The music was everywhere in the room,
a carnival of sound, if you will.
I put on some classical and had to conduct.
Danse Macabre never sounded so good.

Don't get me wrong,
I'm a huge planar fan.
God knows I WANT the ribbons to sound better, but they just don't.
Not even close.
I would describe the ribbons as 'academically correct' or 'accurate' in comparison.
It's as if they aren't really all that into playing music, just kinda going through the motions,
like an old girlfriend, who no longer particularly enjoys your company, but hasn't found a replacement for you yet.

Hell, the Dahlquists shouldn't sound this good.
They buzz when I put any real power to them,
even though they're crossed to the Amazing woofers at 190 Hz.

So I ask of you, the experts:

Is this a line source vs. point source thing?

Is it my small listening room? it's only 12' W x 25' L?

I know I need room treatments in a big way, but why don't both sets suffer?

Is the 400~7 not enough for the ribbons?

Has 40 years of cones and their associated distortion trained my ear/brain to expect it?

Lots of you have heard Amazings and many of you also heard the DQ8s at Carverfest.
I look forward to hearing your insight on this one.

HOT DAMN!!!!! ...what a great thing to happen!!!! I have no idea why it happened but enjoy the music!!!!!

You heard my ribbons at CF....ehat did you think of the setup ther me as compared to your setup?

I wonder if the X-overs are okay.
on mine I found one of the inductors fried.
you may want to check your stuff....

I wonder if the X-overs are okay.
on mine I found one of the inductors fried.
you may want to check your stuff....

ACTIVE~

Wonder also if ribbons may be in need of re-build. Heard may relax over time and lose some highs which may account for what you are hearing or lack thereof, Martin.

Gary, your system was right on. Alive so to speak. The best sounding set of AL3's I have heard and I was never in the "sweeetie spot." Heck, there was no sweeetie spot because of the amp build. The listening environment was less than optimal shall we say to put it mildly.

You heard my ribbons at CF....ehat did you think of the setup ther me as compared to your setup?

Well, you're using the same amplifier, you biamp, crossing over at 190 Hz, and use strictly digital sources; the same exact setup that I'm using.
You'd think the two systems would sound exactly the same.
The ribbon part sounds very similar. It doesn't really start doing it's thing until it starts flirting with 90 dB.
The excellent subwoofer you use has a completely different character to the OB bass on mine.
And the multichannel on yours is spectacular.
The only 2 channel thing that I can think of that I heard on yours was Dire Straits.
And it sounded significantly better than the setup here.
It was something that lends itself to being played very loud (which is what these do best IMO) and I'm not sure how much the listening space contributed.
I can't say that I gave it the same critical listen that I do here, there was so much going on.
Maybe if I had sat and listened to DK doing A Case of You at moderate levels, I'd have a better answer.

Wonder also if ribbons may be in need of re-build. Heard may relax over time and lose some highs which may account for what you are hearing or lack thereof, Martin.

Believe it or not, James rebuilt the ribbons while I looked on, so these have essentially lived their entire 2 year life in my living room.
I've tested them extensively, and the unequalized frequency response curve looks just like graphs floating around on the web.

I've tried the original crossovers, different active crossovers, different equalization settings, different amps, putting the ribbons to the outside (swapping L and R,) countless hours of sweeps and pink noise, and had these things against the wall, away from the wall, measured and moved them more times than I can count, with carpet, without carpet, rearranged the furniture.
I plugged in the DQ8s and voila! instant soundstage, imaging, and dynamics.
I simply don't get it.

Apples and oranges type question, but what did you notice as specific areas of improvement when you moved in the Legacys and put the Carvers on center channel duty?
Did things improve in some of the same areas?

Dahlquist made some very fine and very musical speakers. A friend of my has some Dq10's and they sound awesome! I just think you just discovered a really fine speaker.

Happy for ya Martin! Heard my first pair of Dahlquist's @ 1984. I had an audio buddy that swore by them. The farther up the line you go - the nicer they get! 10's then 20's- I think there were a couple of models in between, but I have not heard them personally. Enjoy the music my friend!

Your CarverFest amps should be able to drive them nicely as they are pretty efficient! (the 8's, NOT the 10's or 20's they take a little more oomph)

Cheers!~

You heard my ribbons at CF....ehat did you think of the setup ther me as compared to your setup?

I think they probably sounded awesome at Carverfest.

For some reason, they sound better standing up at your house than when you are seated ...

after so many years of listening to the al3s, the plats did not sound right at first. then i stood them straight up and that made it better for me. the way they lean back just did not do it for me. that is when the 60's came to life for me. oh yeah, rebuilt ribbons, active crossover, 300x2 on ribbons, and part of a 400-7 for woofers.

I plugged in the DQ8s and voila! instant sound stage, imaging, and dynamics.

These are the key words that stuck out to me [out of this entire thread] that you should concentrate on, Martin. To me, nothing else matters.

Not even an explanation as to why.

Enjoy the music my friend.

I plugged in the DQ8s and voila! instant sound stage, imaging, and dynamics.

These are the key words that stuck out to me [out of this entire thread] that you should concentrate on, Martin. To me, nothing else matters.

Not even an explanation as to why.

Enjoy the music my friend.

Well said Tom.

Update:
There's essentially nothing over about 10kHz with the plat ribbons.
Been experimenting with crossing the over to actual tweeters and they sound much better.
That's probably why I liked the DQ-8s so much.
Genesis put tweeters with these when they used them....

The ribbons drop off on a gently slope from 10k up to 20k. You can set your top EQ to 20kHz & use a wide band to put a 3-4 dB rise on it that will take care of the slope.