Carver Amps and Apogee Divas...

Carver Home Audio (Stereo) Discussions and Questions
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F1nut
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Re: Carver Amps and Apogee Divas...

Post by F1nut » Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:11 am

Enigmatic51 wrote:Forgive the ignorrance gentlemen, but I just dusted off the instruction manual of the M-4.0t and the show me what the mono configuration setup looks like, but there is no mention or drawing of bridged config...are they the same thing!? Thanks!
Yes, they are the same thing. However, your amps when bridged will not want to see less than an 8 ohm nominal load, so forget bridging them to drive the Divas. In fact, your amps are only rated down to 4 ohm loads in stereo mode. The spec for 2 ohms is what they are calling a dynamic rating basically meaning a millisecond.


What sharp words of sarcasm?
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Re: Carver Amps and Apogee Divas...

Post by Toy Maker » Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:03 am

The easy answer is NO. Do not bridge those amps and try to run those speakers. You will most likely damage the amplifiers sooner or later.
Unfortunately, you have the wrong amplifiers for the wrong speakers.

If you like Carver, look for a pair of Silver-7t or Silver-9t mono block amplifiers, that can take a 2-Ohm load with no problem.
They are about 500-600w per amp. And should cost roughly $1500 a pair. Then you can sell the 4.0t's to recoup some of your $$


This would have been a GREAT deal for under $1000
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Carver- ... 4169c7ef31

More of an average priced set
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matching-Pair-o ... 4abacdf628

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Re: Carver Amps and Apogee Divas...

Post by Chauss » Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:41 am

A Sunfire 300 x 2 will drive them quite nicely! Drove my Centaur Majors for over 20 yrs w/o a hiccup- \:D/
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Re: Carver Amps and Apogee Divas...

Post by Toy Maker » Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:10 am

Sunfire amps are not 2-ohm (stable)
That's the reason I bought my 1st Lightstar.

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Gene C
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Re: Carver Amps and Apogee Divas...

Post by Gene C » Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:39 am

F1nut wrote:Interesting specs listed for the Divas,

Maximum SPL - 115db SPL @ 4m with 100W amplifier in a 18'x25'x8' room

Sensitivity @ 3m - 87dB

Looks like fuzzy math to me.



Gene, what SPL's are you talking about here? I mean, what is loud to you might not be to someone else. 113db spl
BTW my Sunfire TGPIII would get to about -23db on the volume before the driver amp would clip on certain music, clasical? -18db. Thats at 75% to 85% on the volume


Where did you come up with 75% to 85%?
That would be the volume control -0 being max volume.
Living room...Sunfire TGP-III 11.4 setup 4 Silver Seven t's/Infinity Kappa 9A (main)/ 4 TFM-45's/ CRS3 (main) /Sunfire CRS3C (center)/Pro-Ject RPM 5.1 v2/Jolida JD-9 II /Apple TV/Wadia 171i/SD/A-490T /WA6/Infinity PS-312 sub & Sunfire Signature Sub (rear)/2 Martin Logan Dynamo 1000 watt subs (front)/AV-806X/4 Infinity C255ES bi pole speakers for sur, sur back and side axis/70" Sharp Aquos LC-70LE733U/Oppo BDP-95 Blu-ray/Douglas Interconnects & 9ga speaker cable.

Garage... CT-17/M-0.5t/TFM-15cb/AV-64/AudioSource EQ Eight Series II 4 Infinity micro sl speakers/2 Martin Logan Motion 4/Infinity Entra 12" Sub.

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Re: Carver Amps and Apogee Divas...

Post by Gene C » Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:48 am

Toy Maker wrote:The easy answer is NO. Do not bridge those amps and try to run those speakers. You will most likely damage the amplifiers sooner or later.
Unfortunately, you have the wrong amplifiers for the wrong speakers.

If you like Carver, look for a pair of Silver-7t or Silver-9t mono block amplifiers, that can take a 2-Ohm load with no problem.
They are about 500-600w per amp. And should cost roughly $1500 a pair. Then you can sell the 4.0t's to recoup some of your $$


This would have been a GREAT deal for under $1000
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Carver- ... 4169c7ef31

More of an average priced set
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matching-Pair-o ... 4abacdf628
The M-4.0t's are 2 ohm stable with a 15 amp fuse. Already been there done that. By the way damaging his speakers is not posible with those amps. Am very famillar with these amps, first one being obtaind in high school 20 years ago. Let him try it, id be the first to admit i was wrong. Have a very strong feeling im right. Don't go off the #s those are underated amps. Never bridge those amps. they are only 8 ohm stable if you do.
Living room...Sunfire TGP-III 11.4 setup 4 Silver Seven t's/Infinity Kappa 9A (main)/ 4 TFM-45's/ CRS3 (main) /Sunfire CRS3C (center)/Pro-Ject RPM 5.1 v2/Jolida JD-9 II /Apple TV/Wadia 171i/SD/A-490T /WA6/Infinity PS-312 sub & Sunfire Signature Sub (rear)/2 Martin Logan Dynamo 1000 watt subs (front)/AV-806X/4 Infinity C255ES bi pole speakers for sur, sur back and side axis/70" Sharp Aquos LC-70LE733U/Oppo BDP-95 Blu-ray/Douglas Interconnects & 9ga speaker cable.

Garage... CT-17/M-0.5t/TFM-15cb/AV-64/AudioSource EQ Eight Series II 4 Infinity micro sl speakers/2 Martin Logan Motion 4/Infinity Entra 12" Sub.

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Re: Carver Amps and Apogee Divas...

Post by Gene C » Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:45 am

F1nut wrote:
"like the siver seven t's im running now"
What SPL do you get from running them? I ask because I've heard them driving Plat's and the SPL did not get all that loud before audible distortion became quite apparent.
Hay F1nut, i have the other Silver Seven t's showing up today. Going to do a recap this afternoon when i get home from work then biamp with all 4. The spl rating on the kappa's are also under rated. Ill do a test and report back on a different thread. If i had to guess before my ears bleed, 115 to 116 or the neighborhood of. I have a pair of Sunfire CRS3's in between the K9's that im in the process of breaking in with 2 TFM-42's. Spl rating on those is 116 db, we'll see if i can get close to that.
Living room...Sunfire TGP-III 11.4 setup 4 Silver Seven t's/Infinity Kappa 9A (main)/ 4 TFM-45's/ CRS3 (main) /Sunfire CRS3C (center)/Pro-Ject RPM 5.1 v2/Jolida JD-9 II /Apple TV/Wadia 171i/SD/A-490T /WA6/Infinity PS-312 sub & Sunfire Signature Sub (rear)/2 Martin Logan Dynamo 1000 watt subs (front)/AV-806X/4 Infinity C255ES bi pole speakers for sur, sur back and side axis/70" Sharp Aquos LC-70LE733U/Oppo BDP-95 Blu-ray/Douglas Interconnects & 9ga speaker cable.

Garage... CT-17/M-0.5t/TFM-15cb/AV-64/AudioSource EQ Eight Series II 4 Infinity micro sl speakers/2 Martin Logan Motion 4/Infinity Entra 12" Sub.

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Re: Carver Amps and Apogee Divas...

Post by Gene C » Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:03 pm

Toy Maker wrote:The easy answer is NO. Do not bridge those amps and try to run those speakers. You will most likely damage the amplifiers sooner or later.
Unfortunately, you have the wrong amplifiers for the wrong speakers.

If you like Carver, look for a pair of Silver-7t or Silver-9t mono block amplifiers, that can take a 2-Ohm load with no problem.
They are about 500-600w per amp. And should cost roughly $1500 a pair. Then you can sell the 4.0t's to recoup some of your $$


This would have been a GREAT deal for under $1000
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Carver- ... 4169c7ef31

More of an average priced set
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Matching-Pair-o ... 4abacdf628
Silver Seven t 575 W @ 8 ohms 900 W @ 4 ohms 1100 @ 2 ohms with a 12 amp fuse for speakes that go lower into 1 ohm a 15 amp fuse is required. I could not clip these amps with my kappas, i tried real hard too because i wanted them to fail...they didn't. So there they stay. For you i do agree with Puppet Master there, but the M-4.0t's will work as well. They have the same makeup almost identical board/electronics wise minus the extra channel/audio board. But of course the Silver Seven t's are way stronger and won't clip at 113 spl like the M-4.0t's did for me....ear ringing volume if you ask me. So if thats what your going for, granted the condition of your amps you shoud get $450 +/- some change. Ill keep my eyes open for a pair of silver seven t's if thats what you want, but try your amps before you unload them or you personaly will never know.
Living room...Sunfire TGP-III 11.4 setup 4 Silver Seven t's/Infinity Kappa 9A (main)/ 4 TFM-45's/ CRS3 (main) /Sunfire CRS3C (center)/Pro-Ject RPM 5.1 v2/Jolida JD-9 II /Apple TV/Wadia 171i/SD/A-490T /WA6/Infinity PS-312 sub & Sunfire Signature Sub (rear)/2 Martin Logan Dynamo 1000 watt subs (front)/AV-806X/4 Infinity C255ES bi pole speakers for sur, sur back and side axis/70" Sharp Aquos LC-70LE733U/Oppo BDP-95 Blu-ray/Douglas Interconnects & 9ga speaker cable.

Garage... CT-17/M-0.5t/TFM-15cb/AV-64/AudioSource EQ Eight Series II 4 Infinity micro sl speakers/2 Martin Logan Motion 4/Infinity Entra 12" Sub.

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Re: Carver Amps and Apogee Divas...

Post by F1nut » Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:41 pm

That would be the volume control -0 being max volume.
Interesting, is that a true linear scale do you know?
113db spl
Yeah ok, that qualifies as loud. 8)
Don't go off the #s those are underated amps.
The specs indicate the power supply isn't that great in the sense that it doesn't double down into a 4 ohm load and the dynamic headroom is pretty small.......just saying.

Gene, what's the efficiency rating for your Kappa's?
Political Correctness...defined

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In a recent press conference, President Obama remarked, "If I had a city, it would look just like Detroit."

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Re: Carver Amps and Apogee Divas...

Post by jjptkd » Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:48 pm

http://www.infinity-classics.de/technik ... _sheet.pdf

Technical Manual
SPECIFICATIONS
RS 9 Kappa
INFINITY SYSTEMS INC., 250 Crossways Park Drive, Woodbury, New York 11797
REV A 6-98
RS 9 Kappa Series 4-Way Speaker System
Nominal Impedance: 4 to 6 ohm
Power Rating: 60-340 watts RMS
Efficiency: 102 dB SPL @1 watt, 1 meter
Crossover Frequencies: 80Hz, 800Hz, 4500Hz
Frequency Response: 29Hz-45kHz +/-3dB
Oppo Sonica DAC / Pre
Sunfire 300x2
Klipsch Cherry RF-5's w/ RC-7 Horn & Crossover

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Re: Carver Amps and Apogee Divas...

Post by F1nut » Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:53 pm

Ah, very efficient I see. That is a big difference compared to the Diva's.
Political Correctness...defined

A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.



In a recent press conference, President Obama remarked, "If I had a city, it would look just like Detroit."

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Gene C
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Re: Carver Amps and Apogee Divas...

Post by Gene C » Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:50 am

You guys need to do more research on the kappa 9a's in extended mode. Already stated they drop into .7 ohms. If you don't believe me ask Bob Carver himself. He has a pair of them too. Please recheck your info.
Living room...Sunfire TGP-III 11.4 setup 4 Silver Seven t's/Infinity Kappa 9A (main)/ 4 TFM-45's/ CRS3 (main) /Sunfire CRS3C (center)/Pro-Ject RPM 5.1 v2/Jolida JD-9 II /Apple TV/Wadia 171i/SD/A-490T /WA6/Infinity PS-312 sub & Sunfire Signature Sub (rear)/2 Martin Logan Dynamo 1000 watt subs (front)/AV-806X/4 Infinity C255ES bi pole speakers for sur, sur back and side axis/70" Sharp Aquos LC-70LE733U/Oppo BDP-95 Blu-ray/Douglas Interconnects & 9ga speaker cable.

Garage... CT-17/M-0.5t/TFM-15cb/AV-64/AudioSource EQ Eight Series II 4 Infinity micro sl speakers/2 Martin Logan Motion 4/Infinity Entra 12" Sub.

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Chauss
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Re: Carver Amps and Apogee Divas...

Post by Chauss » Tue Oct 30, 2012 8:55 am

Toy Maker wrote:Sunfire amps are not 2-ohm (stable)
That's the reason I bought my 1st Lightstar.
Ran my speakers just fine for over 20 yrs.....Jerry has them now - both the amp and speakers-
The Divas and the Centaur Majors have the same relative impedence curve as they used the same ribbons--- The Scintillas are the Apogee's that are VERY hard to drive!

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Re: Carver Amps and Apogee Divas...

Post by Gene C » Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:18 pm

jjptkd wrote:http://www.infinity-classics.de/technik ... _sheet.pdf

Technical Manual
SPECIFICATIONS
RS 9 Kappa
INFINITY SYSTEMS INC., 250 Crossways Park Drive, Woodbury, New York 11797
REV A 6-98
RS 9 Kappa Series 4-Way Speaker System
Nominal Impedance: 4 to 6 ohm
Power Rating: 60-340 watts RMS
Efficiency: 102 dB SPL @1 watt, 1 meter
Crossover Frequencies: 80Hz, 800Hz, 4500Hz
Frequency Response: 29Hz-45kHz +/-3dB
Here read up on this. The K9's were under rated to apeal to the masses even though that was not the intention of Arnie Nudell.

http://www.davidsaudio.com/html/infinity_.html

Impedence curve for the Kappa 9's, they hit 0.7 ohms at 33 Hz and 0.9 ohms at 7 KHz, and everything below 100 Hz is pretty much 2 ohms or lower.
Living room...Sunfire TGP-III 11.4 setup 4 Silver Seven t's/Infinity Kappa 9A (main)/ 4 TFM-45's/ CRS3 (main) /Sunfire CRS3C (center)/Pro-Ject RPM 5.1 v2/Jolida JD-9 II /Apple TV/Wadia 171i/SD/A-490T /WA6/Infinity PS-312 sub & Sunfire Signature Sub (rear)/2 Martin Logan Dynamo 1000 watt subs (front)/AV-806X/4 Infinity C255ES bi pole speakers for sur, sur back and side axis/70" Sharp Aquos LC-70LE733U/Oppo BDP-95 Blu-ray/Douglas Interconnects & 9ga speaker cable.

Garage... CT-17/M-0.5t/TFM-15cb/AV-64/AudioSource EQ Eight Series II 4 Infinity micro sl speakers/2 Martin Logan Motion 4/Infinity Entra 12" Sub.

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