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CF Amp Mods

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Magnaryder

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Post Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:04 pm

Re: CF Amp Mods

frenchguy wrote:Ray, on a serious note, I would really like to hear your CF amp with all those upgrades, must sound pretty sweet and juicy like these nutz.!! :-" :-" :) bring it to the fest!!! =D>

Tomorrow, I'm doing a comparison of my modded amp and the other one that's only had the power supply mods done. Stay tuned. Same Bat time, same Bat channel

I talked to my girls and we're doing the comparison on Wednesday evening. Report to follow.

ray

Hammond tubes or stock tubes?
Magnaryder

Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.

Tim deParavicini's E.A.R. Yoshino V20 Integrated Amplifier, Fosgate Signature Phono pre, Lucas Labs 12B4/OD3 LineStage, No. 50 and 51 Carverfest Tube amps, Hammond M3 tube amp, Ariston RD-40 Turntable w/ Linn Basik LSV tonearn, Grado Statement Master1 cartridge, Carver TX-8 & 11 tuners, Carver TD-12, Tascam CC-222mkII CD recorder, DBX-3BX & 200xg & 120x, CarverAudio ALV prototypes, Alesis Studio One loudspeakers, Energy Reference 22 Connoisseur, Cambridge Audio Model 8s, The Carver Research DarkStar Sub and Stax Earspeakers.

THIS SPACE FOR RENT...helping the blind to hear, one valve at a time
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Magnaryder

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Post Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:46 pm

Re: CF Amp Mods

A little background:

I've been running my AN-9 speaker wires for the past couple of days . I notice a little cleaner presentation with these wires. Thought it might be wishful thinking...they were a busload of $$ all those years ago. I had Sherry listen. She told me what she heard as I switched back and forth between wires. We concluded a small but noticeable sharpening in resolution and a bit of increased depth(separation front to rear)in the soundfield.

IIRC George said he shortened some speaker wires and heard noticeable improvements. George?

Sovtek EL84/6BQ5s used in both amps. After the testing I tried the Hammonds out on the girls. ALL OF THEM could pick out which amp was running the Hammonds. EVERY TIME!!!

Something I was considering after looking at Jesse's recent sale and talking to Eddie yesterday...
I found a guy who suggested a DIY Silver Interconnect cable that he runs with his 1950s Silvertone EL84 amp. He claims much better resolution of micro details and 'air'. I have some wire from another project I might call into use to make the ICs. What's it hurt to try?

Preliminary results after the 1st and second rounds of listening.

Testing was blind. The girls had no idea which amp was running(and didn't seem to care)

Taylor/one of Vosh's friends....She said she heard no difference but liked amp No2(my modded amp) best. She couldn't say why...'I just do'

Vosh/one of my daughters....Dad I like amp No1(in her demonstration) better. I can pick out where all of the instruments and voices come from. She also commented everything is more clear/sharper. Puts me in mind of that pic of the Silver 7s on one of the CF DVD/CDs Mark gave us a couple of years ago. Fuzzy/notFuzzy pic

Sherry/my better half...She found the modded amp much better. Music is much more like music, lively and real. She found the instruments much easier to pick out and their placement was stable.

Jessica/one of my TerrorTwinz(tm) says the music is clearer and the instruments are easier to identify. She thought the drums had more 'life'

Me/myself and I....found when I switched from the lightlymodded amp back to the modded amp the differences were most striking. You can hear all of the inner detail, rise and decay of each note that make up the music. I was listening to Kiss unplugged on the Ariston, the strumming of the guitars and the space around and between each instrument was really believable. You can hear the tapping of feet and hands clapping in the crowd all around you. It took me there. Kewl!

In the lightlymodded amp I did notice the bass extension and impact(slam) were there too. The dynamic presentation equaled the modded amp. Kick drum and snare hits were particularly good, but that's one gauge I use in this kind of testing. My other gauges are male voices and guitar picking. I play alot of Burl Ives, Willie Nelson, Johnny Cash, Bob Dylan and Chet Adkins to decide. I would hazard a guess that a good portion of what I was hoping for as an end result occurred making the power supply mods alone. Pretty damn good. The imaging was a bit blurred, the soundstaging wasn't quite as good and finer details weren't nearly as nicely presented but on the whole not too bad.

Some of this I attribute to the fact my speakers are near-field monitors. Recordings of a more intimate setting help this particular rig shine.

I still have a bit of rewiring to do in the modded amp.

Stay tuned..more to come
Same Bat Time, Same Bat Channel

ray

Al, I'll be bringing them to CarverFest.

Looking for 3 more Hammond tubes.
Last edited by Magnaryder on Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Magnaryder

Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.

Tim deParavicini's E.A.R. Yoshino V20 Integrated Amplifier, Fosgate Signature Phono pre, Lucas Labs 12B4/OD3 LineStage, No. 50 and 51 Carverfest Tube amps, Hammond M3 tube amp, Ariston RD-40 Turntable w/ Linn Basik LSV tonearn, Grado Statement Master1 cartridge, Carver TX-8 & 11 tuners, Carver TD-12, Tascam CC-222mkII CD recorder, DBX-3BX & 200xg & 120x, CarverAudio ALV prototypes, Alesis Studio One loudspeakers, Energy Reference 22 Connoisseur, Cambridge Audio Model 8s, The Carver Research DarkStar Sub and Stax Earspeakers.

THIS SPACE FOR RENT...helping the blind to hear, one valve at a time
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radioeng2

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Post Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:23 pm

Re: CF Amp Mods

Fun review to read Ray. You write just the way you talk in person. I can almost hear your voice. Maybe if I wiped the screen with a good wipe....or changed to a linear PS from the dumb switcher....

I also like the (tm) on the twinz. Funny as hell!

Doesn't work for me to do a long long session for comparing. With a good system you can set down and enjoy for long times. But when you are trying to really analyze and listen careful, you fatigue and get what I call "cooked" pretty quickly.

I've worked and worked and worked on sound (I have an advantage in sound changes from purposely manipulating sonic charateristics!) and be pretty satified. Get up the next morning and first listen, ARGH! Easy to hear something I didn't before. So over time, I've found smaller sessions works better and over time you can pick up on things with greater clarity.

That's why I think it works so well to change something in your system and then leave it alone for a several days or even a week or two. Then cut back over to the original and see whether your previous impressions hold. Yes or no, then listen to the original for a while before you go back to the new. By now, you can start to sort out over a number of tunes, the real differences. It helps eliminate a bright sound from having a positive jump out at you as "better", instead of as unnaturally bright. Peaks are easier to hear than dips. However, that's an eq way of thinking of things which is not normally ever what we get from component changes. What changes, to me, is a character of each note and the background. More like a gritty substance on an otherwise clean surface is the way I think of for the character. That can be from mids on up. Bass has it's own vocabulary of sonics.

Some of that vocabulary thing is what you've written about here. Average people don't have the words to use to describe the differences. Some say, as here, that they know something changed, just not how to verbalize it. Some people don't even listen close enough to hear the changes either...that's not unusual. Audio people on the other hand have read enough reviews to know words to use. Sometimes a word used by somebody else may mean different to you...so beware of that. Asking questions to clarify what someone is saying can really help to avoid misunderstanding what someone is trying to say.

Quick comparisons can have value...sometimes. Quick tends to mislead. Kind of like a bar pickup the next morning I suppose. Or so I've read.

Keep enjoying the learning Ray. Don't let it be too much. Look at is an investment with potential to raise the level of enjoyment over the long term.

Mark
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TNRabbit

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Post Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:28 pm

Re: CF Amp Mods

Ray, I think it's awesome you've been able to involve your family in the endeavor!


=D> =D> =D>
TNRabbit
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Magnaryder

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Post Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:50 pm

Re: CF Amp Mods

Mark, I used a bunch of your CF discs for the listening. I've played them so much everyone knew what they sounded like. Thanks!

Each 'session' was only 2 songs long. The amps switched and the same songs played again. Different songs but songs I felt had alot of texture, good dynamics, imaging and a decent soundstage. Most of the listening took less than 10 minutes. They are teenagers, and as such have short attention spans. You know, boyfriends and all.

We're having fun. A bunch of the kids came over we cooked dinner and listened to some good tunes. Everyone had a great time. I'll piddle through the other amp and finish the wiring in this one then it's done. They sound alot like Lightstar, although we all agree Lightstar better defines low bass.

The girls are enjoying playing around with it and it's something we like doing together. But this is the warmup for the preamp build. I'm getting a handle on what I like to hear and how to take that over to the next project. In retrospect I'm happy with the parts selection I made a year ago, the parts I bought then I like hearing in the 20s. I was about to start on it but some late day trading took my chassis. I'm going another direction for the chassis. I will start the build with just the steel top where the xformers mount and have Sherry's dad put together the wooden sides for me. That way I'll at least get it started. Her Pops has mad carpentry skills.

ray

ps. Mark, thanks for helping me out when I got jammed up. I couldn't have gotten this far without your guidance. This noob is in your debt.
Last edited by Magnaryder on Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Magnaryder

Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.

Tim deParavicini's E.A.R. Yoshino V20 Integrated Amplifier, Fosgate Signature Phono pre, Lucas Labs 12B4/OD3 LineStage, No. 50 and 51 Carverfest Tube amps, Hammond M3 tube amp, Ariston RD-40 Turntable w/ Linn Basik LSV tonearn, Grado Statement Master1 cartridge, Carver TX-8 & 11 tuners, Carver TD-12, Tascam CC-222mkII CD recorder, DBX-3BX & 200xg & 120x, CarverAudio ALV prototypes, Alesis Studio One loudspeakers, Energy Reference 22 Connoisseur, Cambridge Audio Model 8s, The Carver Research DarkStar Sub and Stax Earspeakers.

THIS SPACE FOR RENT...helping the blind to hear, one valve at a time
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Magnaryder

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Post Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:59 pm

Re: CF Amp Mods

TNRabbit wrote:Ray, I think it's awesome you've been able to involve your family in the endeavor!


=D> =D> =D>

Wabbit, Good to hear from you! The girls hear WAAY better than I do, they like music and one of their teachers plays the Beatles, Eagles and stuff like that in art class. They're reading Poe in English. I made a copy of 'Tales of Mystery and Imagination-Edgar Allen Poe' by the Allan Parsons Project. They're starting to see how some of the 'old' stuff is relevant today. Vosh has the DQ8s and a Carver HR-7xx receiver. A turntable and LPs are next for her. She was eyeing the Ariston a little to much tonight:-)

ray
Magnaryder

Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.

Tim deParavicini's E.A.R. Yoshino V20 Integrated Amplifier, Fosgate Signature Phono pre, Lucas Labs 12B4/OD3 LineStage, No. 50 and 51 Carverfest Tube amps, Hammond M3 tube amp, Ariston RD-40 Turntable w/ Linn Basik LSV tonearn, Grado Statement Master1 cartridge, Carver TX-8 & 11 tuners, Carver TD-12, Tascam CC-222mkII CD recorder, DBX-3BX & 200xg & 120x, CarverAudio ALV prototypes, Alesis Studio One loudspeakers, Energy Reference 22 Connoisseur, Cambridge Audio Model 8s, The Carver Research DarkStar Sub and Stax Earspeakers.

THIS SPACE FOR RENT...helping the blind to hear, one valve at a time
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Magnaryder

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Post Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:46 pm

Re: CF Amp Mods

Today I'm modding the other CFamp. I hope to have the parts in it tonight. I'll place a bridging switch on the back of the amp too. I already installed a power switch in it. I thought I'd get it done yesterday at work but I forgot the flux on my work bench. Onward now.

The Steelers opened a can of WOOPASS on the Browns. Cleveland was favored by 6. Guess they didn't cover the spread.

ray
Magnaryder

Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.

Tim deParavicini's E.A.R. Yoshino V20 Integrated Amplifier, Fosgate Signature Phono pre, Lucas Labs 12B4/OD3 LineStage, No. 50 and 51 Carverfest Tube amps, Hammond M3 tube amp, Ariston RD-40 Turntable w/ Linn Basik LSV tonearn, Grado Statement Master1 cartridge, Carver TX-8 & 11 tuners, Carver TD-12, Tascam CC-222mkII CD recorder, DBX-3BX & 200xg & 120x, CarverAudio ALV prototypes, Alesis Studio One loudspeakers, Energy Reference 22 Connoisseur, Cambridge Audio Model 8s, The Carver Research DarkStar Sub and Stax Earspeakers.

THIS SPACE FOR RENT...helping the blind to hear, one valve at a time
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Magnaryder

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Post Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:38 pm

Re: CF Amp Mods

Tonight I installed the Obbligatto 0.1 uf film caps and the 2.2k Mills resistors in my CF amp. I listened a bit between installing the Obbligatos and the resistors. In my CF amp there was a huge difference between the original caps and the Obbligatos. The separation and 'air' between the instruments was gained in part of the modding. I did still notice a little blurring of vocals before I installed the Mills resistors. I was listening to Alanna Miles and Allison Krause. There was a bit of haze over the vocals. That cleared up a bit after I installed the new Mills 2.2Ks.

Mark suggested changing the 47k and 470k resistors also. Here's the rub. I found the 47k but couldn't find the 470ks based on the color codes on the new Shinkoh Tatntalum resistors. When I came in the house to get on the 'net and check, I discovered my CF amp has resistors that are marked differently. I will pull one out in the coming days and check its value to make certain before I install the PRPs next weekend. My eyes hurt from so much squinting.

I'm awaiting the upgraded binding posts and Rhodium RCAs from Beemers and will try to do all of that at the same time.

Here's what I''ve noticed about the performance of the CarverFest amps as I've modded them to this point:

The power supply mods really improve dynamics. I installed a JJ 47uf/500V electrolytic, 2 F&T 100uf/100volt electrolytics, a 220uf/200V generic electrolytic and replaced the little yellow 100 and 150pf caps with polypropylene units.

The 0.1uf Obbligatto Film caps give the instruments air and separation.

The Mills 2.2K resistors improve clarity of vocals and improved lower level detail.

The DH Labs Silver over copper hook up wire helped to further improve focus and inner details.

YMMV!

ray
Magnaryder

Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.

Tim deParavicini's E.A.R. Yoshino V20 Integrated Amplifier, Fosgate Signature Phono pre, Lucas Labs 12B4/OD3 LineStage, No. 50 and 51 Carverfest Tube amps, Hammond M3 tube amp, Ariston RD-40 Turntable w/ Linn Basik LSV tonearn, Grado Statement Master1 cartridge, Carver TX-8 & 11 tuners, Carver TD-12, Tascam CC-222mkII CD recorder, DBX-3BX & 200xg & 120x, CarverAudio ALV prototypes, Alesis Studio One loudspeakers, Energy Reference 22 Connoisseur, Cambridge Audio Model 8s, The Carver Research DarkStar Sub and Stax Earspeakers.

THIS SPACE FOR RENT...helping the blind to hear, one valve at a time
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Zoot Horn

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Post Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:56 pm

Re: CF Amp Mods

Ray,, what are the values of the poly's.
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Magnaryder

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Post Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:24 am

Re: CF Amp Mods

Zoot Horn wrote:Ray,, what are the values of the poly's.


George, they're

100pf and 150pf polystyrenes

ray
Magnaryder

Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.

Tim deParavicini's E.A.R. Yoshino V20 Integrated Amplifier, Fosgate Signature Phono pre, Lucas Labs 12B4/OD3 LineStage, No. 50 and 51 Carverfest Tube amps, Hammond M3 tube amp, Ariston RD-40 Turntable w/ Linn Basik LSV tonearn, Grado Statement Master1 cartridge, Carver TX-8 & 11 tuners, Carver TD-12, Tascam CC-222mkII CD recorder, DBX-3BX & 200xg & 120x, CarverAudio ALV prototypes, Alesis Studio One loudspeakers, Energy Reference 22 Connoisseur, Cambridge Audio Model 8s, The Carver Research DarkStar Sub and Stax Earspeakers.

THIS SPACE FOR RENT...helping the blind to hear, one valve at a time
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Zoot Horn

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Post Mon Nov 25, 2013 6:15 am

Re: CF Amp Mods

thank you sir
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Magnaryder

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Post Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:51 pm

Re: CF Amp Mods

I came across an old console stereo that had all the writing on it in German. Can y'all guess what that means? Yepper...produced in Germany with a complete compliment of Telefunken tubes. Tonight we're rocking Telefunkens and some great vintage vinyl I'm going to pull the amp and preamp, run it to some decent speakers and TT and see how it sounds.

ray
Magnaryder

Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.

Tim deParavicini's E.A.R. Yoshino V20 Integrated Amplifier, Fosgate Signature Phono pre, Lucas Labs 12B4/OD3 LineStage, No. 50 and 51 Carverfest Tube amps, Hammond M3 tube amp, Ariston RD-40 Turntable w/ Linn Basik LSV tonearn, Grado Statement Master1 cartridge, Carver TX-8 & 11 tuners, Carver TD-12, Tascam CC-222mkII CD recorder, DBX-3BX & 200xg & 120x, CarverAudio ALV prototypes, Alesis Studio One loudspeakers, Energy Reference 22 Connoisseur, Cambridge Audio Model 8s, The Carver Research DarkStar Sub and Stax Earspeakers.

THIS SPACE FOR RENT...helping the blind to hear, one valve at a time
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Magnaryder

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Post Sun Dec 01, 2013 4:51 pm

Re: CF Amp Mods

George, do I remember correctly you mentioned shortening the speaker cables to your tube amps and you noticed some improvement? Can I get details or directed to the thread?

thanx, ray
Magnaryder

Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.

Tim deParavicini's E.A.R. Yoshino V20 Integrated Amplifier, Fosgate Signature Phono pre, Lucas Labs 12B4/OD3 LineStage, No. 50 and 51 Carverfest Tube amps, Hammond M3 tube amp, Ariston RD-40 Turntable w/ Linn Basik LSV tonearn, Grado Statement Master1 cartridge, Carver TX-8 & 11 tuners, Carver TD-12, Tascam CC-222mkII CD recorder, DBX-3BX & 200xg & 120x, CarverAudio ALV prototypes, Alesis Studio One loudspeakers, Energy Reference 22 Connoisseur, Cambridge Audio Model 8s, The Carver Research DarkStar Sub and Stax Earspeakers.

THIS SPACE FOR RENT...helping the blind to hear, one valve at a time
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Zoot Horn

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Post Sun Dec 01, 2013 5:24 pm

Re: CF Amp Mods

I got the idea from someone over at Audio Asylum-- anyway-- place the amp just behind/near the speaker-- and use the shortest cable than you can,, usually 3 feet or less.
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Magnaryder

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Post Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:37 pm

Re: CF Amp Mods

Zoot Horn wrote:I got the idea from someone over at Audio Asylum-- anyway-- place the amp just behind/near the speaker-- and use the shortest cable than you can,, usually 3 feet or less.

I shortened mine to 44in, just enough to reach all of my speakers without having to move the amplifiers. I'll let you know if there's any discernible difference. I did NOT cut the AN-9s. Seemed like a travesty to me.

ray

looking for 4 Hammond tubes. I lost one in my living room. WTF!!!!

Does it seem fair trading a pair of Telefunken EL84s for a set of 4 Hammond 6BQ5s/EL84s?

ray
Magnaryder

Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.

Tim deParavicini's E.A.R. Yoshino V20 Integrated Amplifier, Fosgate Signature Phono pre, Lucas Labs 12B4/OD3 LineStage, No. 50 and 51 Carverfest Tube amps, Hammond M3 tube amp, Ariston RD-40 Turntable w/ Linn Basik LSV tonearn, Grado Statement Master1 cartridge, Carver TX-8 & 11 tuners, Carver TD-12, Tascam CC-222mkII CD recorder, DBX-3BX & 200xg & 120x, CarverAudio ALV prototypes, Alesis Studio One loudspeakers, Energy Reference 22 Connoisseur, Cambridge Audio Model 8s, The Carver Research DarkStar Sub and Stax Earspeakers.

THIS SPACE FOR RENT...helping the blind to hear, one valve at a time
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