Offset problem with TFM-55?

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brit01
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Re: Offset problem with TFM-55?

Post by brit01 » Sat Nov 08, 2008 4:25 pm

How stupid am I???

R286 not R226!

It was so burned that I misread it. This is a 100ohm.

I was looking at Q236 and it didn't make sense as one of the legs connects to the burned resistor but it wasn't R226.
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Re: Offset problem with TFM-55?

Post by RichP714 » Sat Nov 08, 2008 4:30 pm

brit01 wrote:now if the negative 98V cable connecting to D504 had become lose would this cause a big problem?
Yes
brit01 wrote:......Also Q236 readings are much lower than the left channel (same polarities in circuit), but reading only 12/13 compared with 38 on the left channel transistor.
I'm confused, since we're only looking for shorts. This may be significant later, but for now we're only looking for blown transistors. 12 vs 38 on what range?

brit01 wrote:......Q214 (right)

E/B: 1992 (this should be zero reading like the left channal) 8-[ other way : 556
[/quote]I don't understand this at all, a reading of zero is a short, nothing should be reading zero

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Re: Offset problem with TFM-55?

Post by RichP714 » Sat Nov 08, 2008 4:33 pm

brit01 wrote:How stupid am I???

R286 not R226!

It was so burned that I misread it. This is a 100ohm.

I was looking at Q236 and it didn't make sense as one of the legs connects to the burned resistor but it wasn't R226.
Where is this resistor in the schematic?

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Re: Offset problem with TFM-55?

Post by brit01 » Sat Nov 08, 2008 4:35 pm

R286 is at the bottom right of the right channel page. just on Q236. I'm assuming it's R286, difficult to read. But this connects straight to one leg of Q236.


......Also Q236 readings are much lower than the left channel (same polarities in circuit), but reading only 12/13 compared with 38 on the left channel transistor.
I'm confused, since we're only looking for shorts. This may be significant later, but for now we're only looking for blown transistors. 12 vs 38 on what range?
This is on the diode testing mode.

......Q214 (right)

E/B: 1992 (this should be zero reading like the left channal) 8-[ other way : 556
I don't understand this at all, a reading of zero is a short, nothing should be reading zero[/quote]

This is in circuit testing with the diode function.
Yes very strange, seems to be reading something (1992). My meter shows 1 if no reading. Let me have a look at the manual to see what it says.

ALSO how should Q236 read out of circuit?
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Re: Offset problem with TFM-55?

Post by brit01 » Sat Nov 08, 2008 4:55 pm

UPDATE: EVERYTHING BACK TO NORMAL :? :? :? :? :lol: :lol: :lol:

I put the 100 ohm back in and everything seems to power up ok. Will do some testing tomorrow (got to get myself ready to go out now). I think I had a short when I messed around with those coupling caps and the 100 ohm saved my ass!

OK ONCE IT'S UP AND RUNNING TOMORROW NO MORE MESSING AROUND I PROMISE TO MYSELF. JUST THOSE TRANSISTORS YOUR SENDING ME.

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>
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Re: Offset problem with TFM-55?

Post by RichP714 » Sat Nov 08, 2008 5:44 pm

brit01 wrote:UPDATE: EVERYTHING BACK TO NORMAL :? :? :? :? :lol: :lol: :lol:

I put the 100 ohm back in and everything seems to power up ok. Will do some testing tomorrow (got to get myself ready to go out now). I think I had a short when I messed around with those coupling caps and the 100 ohm saved my ass!

OK ONCE IT'S UP AND RUNNING TOMORROW NO MORE MESSING AROUND I PROMISE TO MYSELF. JUST THOSE TRANSISTORS YOUR SENDING ME.

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>
=D> =D> =D>

What a strange road this is turning into. If it were me, I'd get those PIO caps out of there and put the right ones back in; theyre too big, they're PIO so they won't last long, and I've only seen PIO on passive crossovers.

Too much chance of the metal can shorting things out.

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Re: Offset problem with TFM-55?

Post by brit01 » Sat Nov 08, 2008 5:47 pm

If it were me, I'd get those PIO caps out of there and put the right ones back in; theyre too big, they're PIO so they won't last long, and I've only seen PIO on passive crossovers.
I took those out straight away. Metal cans and all. (keep them for the valve project).

The little polyester and polypropylene are back in it's rightful place.

This was like a little twist to the near end.
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Re: Offset problem with TFM-55?

Post by brit01 » Sun Nov 09, 2008 8:37 am

Back to the problem at first.

I put my amp back in the rack after testing voltages on the workbench, nothing switched on I connected the right speaker and bam the R286 resistor blew. This was with the amp switched off!!!!WTF.

Update: I think the transistor Q232 was shorting with the metal cover for the rca board. It was brushing the metal part of this transistor!!!! When I took off the metal cover the resistor popped again :-k :-k :-k
Let me check this out.


I think this was the initial problem all along. the metal plate was shorting with the edge of Q232!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

music is coming out of the boxes now =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>
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Re: Offset problem with TFM-55?

Post by brit01 » Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:40 am

8 hours of good burn in time yesterday and everything so sweettt.

Heatsinks were just warm, bias set at about 2.3 mV (which took bloody ages to get right cuz those stock pots are junk), didn't want to overdo things.

The 100V,10000uF Panasonic caps were warm to the touch. Burning in nicely.

Just looking forward to getting the new transistors (kindly sent by Rich) to fix the 30mV of dc offset I'm getting. Also the new FR603 diodes and new bias pots.


:D :D :D :D :D
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Re: Offset problem with TFM-55?

Post by HRDROKN » Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:46 am

Hey Brit....

Great job Bro! For a guy that didn't even own a multimeter you really kicked ass following the input from this board. Heck, I own a multimeter (actually two) and generally know how to use them (automotive electronics, fuel management, ect.), but I must say this thread really had me concentrating... :-k

=D>
HRDROKN
MC-7P tube preanp, BBE2002R, Marchand XM44, TFM-35x .002, TFM-35x, M1.0t MKII .002, M500t, Silver 7t's, SDA-360 and Klipsch KLF-30's w/crites crossovers...

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brit01
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Re: Offset problem with TFM-55?

Post by brit01 » Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:08 am

HRDROKN,
For a guy that didn't even own a multimeter you really kicked ass
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Cheers dude. Yep last time I touched electronics was at high school some time ago.
You could say my personality is a bit passionate bordering on the obsessive side, so when I focus on something my determination is second to none. Also I didn't trust any cowboy "technician" on my carver.
Have to pay some attention to my better half now :-"
She said "Me or Carver, you choose" :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Offset problem with TFM-55?

Post by RichP714 » Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:50 pm

brit01 wrote:.....
She said "Me or Carver, you choose" :lol: :lol: :lol:
I'm there as well, and it's the wife's day off so I have to take a time out from all things Carver or the cup won't runneth over.......

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Re: Offset problem with TFM-55?

Post by brit01 » Tue Nov 25, 2008 4:56 pm

Interesting observation:

I was experimenting with 1% metal film resistors and 5% carbon ones on the RCA board.

I wanted to put metal film resistors at the signal path.

The 1% resistors were increasing the amount of dc offset. I'm thinking that the 5% tolerance is important for the dif. transistors here for them to be a little flexible in the push/pull arrangement.
As I changed pair by pair back to carbon 5% the dc offset slowly decreased.

It's balanced just below 20 mV on each channel now. Still 2 pairs of 1%'s I need to change back and also on the main board.

I guess I will need 5% metal film if I am to use this kind. Probably not worth the effort now.

20mV is in a safe range I believe, but I'd like to get it below 10 mV.
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Re: Offset problem with TFM-55?

Post by brit01 » Fri Nov 28, 2008 3:54 am

well I've got all the new transistors in place, even changing all dif.transistors on the rca board, and the new pots, including the new FR603 diodes.
I found some C2229 transistors on the main board instead of 2SC2240's #-o . I changed them for new C2240's.

The pots are much better. Thks Rich.

When I start up the amp after a few mins I get about 10/11 mV dc offset balanced on both channels. After about an hour of heating up it rises to about 17 mV max.

I guess without matching transistors this is ok now. When I power up I get no bump through the speakers anymore. Dead quiet. \:D/ \:D/ \:D/

What level of dc offset are other people getting on their tfm series?? Or on your MkII amps Rich?
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Re: Offset problem with TFM-55?

Post by brit01 » Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:07 pm

Haven't been around for a while.

Just popping in to say Hi to all the Carver members here.

My Carver is still going strong. In fact I just changed the inout caps on the RCA board for some little red WIMA's this weekend.

Got my Carver running well with an Aikido Valve pre-amp that rocks!! :D :D :D

But I do get an occasional small crack through the right channel. Still got some pending component changes though.

Been very busy with a new job as systems analyst and new hours so don't have much spare time.


Also got a new addition: An immaculate Rotel RCA 965 BX CDP. Beautiful :D

See you all around.

8) 8) 8) 8)
TFM-55, CT-3, Klipsch F-1, Rotel RCD 930AX

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