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Platinum and Silver model woofers

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Robert R

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Post Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:27 pm

Re: Platinum and Silver model woofers

Obi, good to hear from you. You argue the negative points very well. When I said import details, of course, I meant shipping to be included in that. It could well be he killer.

As I said, what we need are numbers, and facts. We are arguing without data. It may very well be that Dynavox can't be beaten, but is can't really hurt to check into it. It's called giving luck a chance, around here at least.

A buying club doesn't have to be the importer, or deal with the factory. I don't know whom Dynavox deals with; there may be more in the middle than we think. But even in just dealing with Dynavox, there is strength in numbers. Car dealers have had to adapt to car-buying groups that go price shopping; the members save a good deal. When you buy ten or twelve cars, you get their "better than best" price right up front, and later an even better one.

Numbers, and facts. How many would some wholesaler require as a minimum order? At how much apiece? Where are they delivered? How is quality guaranteed? Can we get a mixed order, with more than one model woofer? All this sort of thing.

THEN, and only, then can we consider how many we can handle, how to handle them, how to pay for them. Also whether we'd overbuy, to later provide a source for members, and at what price, and, if so, then where and how to store them. And, who does all the work.

For my part, I will start looking in Taiwan. Anybody who has bought any of these lately and has info on the manufacturer, even just a name, please let me know. My carton is 8 years old, but I will try to find them starting from that. If I can, I'll have my Chinese friend see if they would sell a couple of hundred, and for how much, etc. The Chinese love to haggle as much as anybody

Robert R.
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OBI56

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Post Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:40 pm

Re: Platinum and Silver model woofers

I worked in the distribution/importation/manufacturers rep business in the electronics field for several years back in the 80s so I pretty much understand how it works and how to cost things out as that was what my job was. The basics haven't changed but the actual costs sure have. The actual figures vary a lot for each kind of product and what is considered "large" volume for the product and what the profit margin is. The figures for vitamins are completely opposite from what they are for specialized electronics like replacement woofers for obsolete speakers.

Using woofers as an example they are relatively heavy, fragile and use large packaging for their weight. They can come packaged individually or in master cartons (probably 4 in this case) and shipping 1 or 4 takes the same time and effort. Actually, shipping a pallet load of them (probably 48 to 60 units) takes the about the same time and effort as shipping just 1 of them. Typically, the cost of shipping 4 master cartons or 8 individual packs or a pallet is roughly the same amount. to get a decent price on shipping, 1 order must be shipped to 1 address; if you split the shipping to 3 addresses, theyare considered individual shippments and are priced accordingly. The seller can also consider the order as being 3 orders and you lose the advantage of the volume discount.

Another point; Dynavox/Orevox is the master importer/distrigutor for these woofers. When they order them from the manufacturer, they have to order a container load full of them to get a decent price becuase they are custom made to their specifications and are not a common, off the shelf product. The problem here is that prices have risen since their last order a few years ago due to several factors, one of which is the dramatic drop in the value of the US dollar this year. Another major cost is the shipping which has doubled or tripled from China in the past 3 years (this applies to everything coming by boat or air). That is why the price has gone from $30 to $45 for this batch. Now, to get a volume discount you usually have ot buy at least 12 of any 1 product to get a 10% discount (shich is on the high side, 5% is more typical) which comes out to $4.50 per woofer. Buying a pallet load can save you maybe another 10% at best, so the secret here is large quantities of a single product shipped to a single address.

Cars are an entirely different story. They are large, heavy and have a high value and relatively low profit margins percentagewise and the quantity discounts from group purchases are much smaller percentagewise. Shipping is also costly but by grouping them into full transporter loads saves a lot of money but still a small amount percentagewise. It makes economic sense to buy cars sthis way which is why it gets done so much.

Vitamins are another different story. They weigh very little, you can get a lot of bottles into 1 reasonably sized box and have huge profit margins on them (typically 50 to 80% from importer to end user) so you can get larger volume discounts by bypassing the distributor and dealing direct. This only works if you can reduce the shipping costs by having lots of people who live or work close by to each other.

You just can't compare these 3 examples because they are all have completely different conditions to their sale adn shipping.

My point it; run the figures. You need to take everything into account: weight, volume, packaging, shipping. Without all of the specific information handy there is no way I can tell you if there are any real savings to be had from buying groups for each different kind of product but the one thing that people almost never take into account is that if they are dealing locally or at driveable distances ot pick up their products is their time and the cost of gas. I don't know about you guys, but my time is worth money so taking 2 hors to go and pick up 8 woofers in a car and the cost of gas can easily amount to more than the potential cost savings. If you have to ship them across the country or state, then the cost just goes way up.

Run the firgures for yourself and remember to count everything. YMMV tremendously. Don't assume that you will be saving tons of money by doing this; it might just wind up costing you more than just buying your own woofers. I speak from personal experience here; been there, done that , wound up costing me a fortune because I though I was doing the right thing out of principle.

BTW, ran some hypothetical figures on 24 woofers (3 people at 8 woofers apiece, living just outside reasonable driving distance) and the cheapest scenarios came out costing $22 to $41 more per order in a buying group VS individual orders, mostly due to shipping costs. The break even point seems to be around 48 woofers.
Why let facts or common sense get in the way of your opinions.
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Zoot Horn

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Post Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:57 am

Re: Platinum and Silver model woofers

Hey,,, I got an e-mail from Ada Lin (dynavox person),, I've asked for permission to post it here,but have not heard back,,but here it is, in my own words---35.00 per woofer(either model) as of now,plus shipping. I had pitched to her a "group buy" idea,, whereas they would give us an even better price,,and then ship to the individual buyers,, following receipt of payment in the group buy account,,if you will. I'll report back as soon as I hear from them.
Thanks--george
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Robert R

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Post Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:55 pm

Re: Platinum and Silver model woofers

Great, George. Just as we hoped.

On the Asian front, I find that Chung Tai Electronic of Taiwan (founded 1960, and a major driver supplier), is as of 1998 moved to the mainland (Jiaxing City) and renamed Astrosound Electronics. So I can't get my friend to visit them, unless they still have an office on Taiwan. He sure won't go to the mainland, not even for pay. His family escaped that crap, in 1949. I could get him to call them, and maybe find out at least how to reach someone who can speak enough English for a chat with an American.

In the light of what Obi contributed, perhaps it's time to give up that idea, unless we come up with a huge order.

At $35, put me down for ten. Another $10 off and I might go 18.

The ones I bought came six in a box, a cube (actually 13X13X16") with a driver facing each side. Shipping weight was 22 lb.

Robert R
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OBI56

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Post Sun Nov 23, 2008 4:06 pm

Re: Platinum and Silver model woofers

Its good to have some exact figures and information Robert. Now at least it makes it easier to run some figures from actual data and get some real figures to work with and find out if the whole idea can fly or not.
Why let facts or common sense get in the way of your opinions.
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Robert R

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Post Sun Nov 23, 2008 4:30 pm

Re: Platinum and Silver model woofers

Yes, now we have to advertise. We're already saving ten bucks per woofer. Where on the Forum should we post an announcement of this type? I checked all the headings, but nothing seemed to fit exactly, except right here on the Carver Speaker thread.
ALS WOOFERS via QUANTITY BUY DEAL on the Forum.
Something like that?

Robert R
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Robert R

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Post Sun Nov 23, 2008 5:05 pm

Re: Platinum and Silver model woofers

George - Just thought - did your inquiry mention the Original type (FL, as in flat) woofers as well? Many guys may need these, I know there was interest.

Robert R
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Reese

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Post Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:52 pm

Re: Platinum and Silver model woofers

That's true about the flat honeycombed woofers (for me, at least) --

And another question -- buying and storing these indefinitely -- will the foam surrounds rot away packed in their cartons until some future date? That would make me really cry to open up the cartons to replace a blown woofer and find black dust and some ruined speakers!. :shock:
Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought -- JFK

Sunfire Classic Tube Preamp; 2 Carver Silver 7ts, 2 Silver 9ts; bi-amped ALS (Originals upgraded to Platinum), Rane PE15's eq's and Rane AC22 xcrossover; Carver c-19 tube pre;
Carver 390t CD carousel; Carver 490t CD player; BBE 362 Sonic Maximizer; C-9 SH; Sony ES tuner and DAT deck; Sony CD copier/burner; Sony dual cassette deck; TEAC 2340R 4 ch r to r tape deck; Dual CS5000 tt, Shure V15 Type V-MR cartridge
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Robert R

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Post Sun Nov 23, 2008 7:21 pm

Re: Platinum and Silver model woofers

I don't think so, not for many years. I suspect if they're kept in the proverbial cool, dry place, and wrapped up fairly airtight, they wouldn't rot. I'm going on my own experience. Mine (some of them; don't ask) are 20 at this point and aren't rotten. They've been kept out of sun or direct heat, and air conditioned in summer.

Anybody out there that knows otherwise, chime in, please. For these drivers, not just in general. A lot of different materials have been used in the industry, and some were disastrous. What does rot them? Heat, humidity, UV, or does all the vibration finally do 'em in?

Robert R
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Zoot Horn

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Post Sun Nov 23, 2008 7:41 pm

Re: Platinum and Silver model woofers

Robert R wrote:George - Just thought - did your inquiry mention the Original type (FL, as in flat) woofers as well? Many guys may need these, I know there was interest.

Robert R



Yep,, :D ,, which is what I'll be ordering.
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Scarabeo

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Post Sun Nov 23, 2008 7:46 pm

Re: Platinum and Silver model woofers

zoothorn wrote: in my own words---$35.00 per woofer(either model) as of now,plus shipping. I had pitched to her a "group buy" idea,, whereas they would give us an even better price,,and then ship to the individual buyers,, following receipt of payment in the group buy account,,if you will. I'll report back as soon as I hear from them.
Thanks--george

I am glad I started this movement! After finding rot on 2 of my woofers I came to this forum and found who had em then called Ada and got a price of $45 but at first others were getting em at $25 in just 06 then they upped to $35 and now $45 so with the idea of finding cheaper (Needing) 8 woofers I ask for help! Boy I got it,,,THANKS!!! =D> *5*
Good move George I never could get more then "Sure we can give some kind of saving if you get 16 or more woofers" Well I will not contact Ada and wait to see how this unfolds your doing great! :-"
BillD, You will be forever with us! RIP until we meet again on the other side...
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Reese

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Post Sun Nov 23, 2008 7:53 pm

Re: Platinum and Silver model woofers

Robert R wrote:I don't think so, not for many years. I suspect if they're kept in the proverbial cool, dry place, and wrapped up fairly airtight, they wouldn't rot. I'm going on my own experience. Mine (some of them; don't ask) are 20 at this point and aren't rotten. They've been kept out of sun or direct heat, and air conditioned in summer.

Anybody out there that knows otherwise, chime in, please. For these drivers, not just in general. A lot of different materials have been used in the industry, and some were disastrous. What does rot them? Heat, humidity, UV, or does all the vibration finally do 'em in?

Robert R


Thanks for the input, Robert! The ones in m Originals w/Upgrade are still in fine shape -- despite that my wife and I smoked in the house since they moved in in '94-95. San Francisco marine air, no air conditioning, but gas heat in winter -- and now down here in Santa Fe very dry ambient humidity, no air conditioning but a cool house, floor radiant heat so not harsh direct heated air blowing on the speakers either. Fingers crossed! Especially since I'm driving them with the Silver 9t's now....
Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought -- JFK

Sunfire Classic Tube Preamp; 2 Carver Silver 7ts, 2 Silver 9ts; bi-amped ALS (Originals upgraded to Platinum), Rane PE15's eq's and Rane AC22 xcrossover; Carver c-19 tube pre;
Carver 390t CD carousel; Carver 490t CD player; BBE 362 Sonic Maximizer; C-9 SH; Sony ES tuner and DAT deck; Sony CD copier/burner; Sony dual cassette deck; TEAC 2340R 4 ch r to r tape deck; Dual CS5000 tt, Shure V15 Type V-MR cartridge
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maddmaxxx

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Post Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:08 pm

Re: Platinum and Silver model woofers

-second effin time im postin this [this format sux]


-mr reese; you joined us w/ ALS orig [upgraded to plats]

-since joining, youve purchased 2 prs of blocks !!!

-YOU ROCK !!!, [YOU OPERA doesnt sound as kuul #-o ]...oh, mr reese, mr m500t might can give you a good price on 8 unused honeycombers [pm him]

-anyways i bought an extra 6woofs for spares after i bought 6woofs I NEEDED

-i did ths on acct i didnt care for dynavox/ orevox's co. and mgmt...figured they could never stay in business after a few ph calls
-i keep the spares sealed in plastic

-i kinda recommend to any that can afford it to do likewise[purchase spares]
-* © Küül ®™ /mx...
-Too hip gotta book
-"Don't BAN me Bro!"...el/doro
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Reese

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Post Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:36 pm

Re: Platinum and Silver model woofers

yep, Mr Maxxx, that's true (although I'm not running the 4 blocks yet simultaneously!)-- and I'm definitely trying to figure out the budget to put aside for 8 honeycomb woofers at a good price! I think I can store them safely indoors on a closet shelf if I just move some other crap out of my life! lol \:D/ I'll definitely pm Mr. m500t per your tip. Muchas gracias!
Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought -- JFK

Sunfire Classic Tube Preamp; 2 Carver Silver 7ts, 2 Silver 9ts; bi-amped ALS (Originals upgraded to Platinum), Rane PE15's eq's and Rane AC22 xcrossover; Carver c-19 tube pre;
Carver 390t CD carousel; Carver 490t CD player; BBE 362 Sonic Maximizer; C-9 SH; Sony ES tuner and DAT deck; Sony CD copier/burner; Sony dual cassette deck; TEAC 2340R 4 ch r to r tape deck; Dual CS5000 tt, Shure V15 Type V-MR cartridge
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Scarabeo

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Post Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:55 am

Re: Platinum and Silver model woofers

zoothorn wrote:
Robert R wrote:Robert R



Yep,, :D ,, which is what I'll be ordering.

Any updates? Has any one got some Woofers or are we still hoping to find a way to get some price deals. I have backed off to see what happens but i will be needing them soon but can hold out another month.
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BillD, You will be forever with us! RIP until we meet again on the other side...
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