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new member. Am using Carver speakers only.

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Garyspang

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Post Sat Mar 07, 2009 7:02 pm

new member. Am using Carver speakers only.

Have studied the lengthy carver patent for ribbon speaker construction. But am still not sure how to get the occasional buzz out. Any suggestions?
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Reese

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Post Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:39 pm

Re: new member. Am using Carver speakers only.

Welcome aboard! Try the search function here for ribbons, buzzing, etc. There have been several threads in this forum about various causes (from humidity to broken mylar/kaptan) and fixing those annoying (or scary) buzzes
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engtaz

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Post Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:49 pm

Re: new member. Am using Carver speakers only.

Welcome Garyspang. Toymaker and DaveS are the experts on all that are ribbons.
engtaz


Carver M4.0T in front channels to Caver AL VI's in SACD & 2 Channel setup
C 16, PT 2400, Slim Device, Carver TX-8, 490T and Rega TT w Grado Gold cart in the 2 channel setup
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DaveS

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Post Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:04 pm

Re: new member. Am using Carver speakers only.

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Mr. M-500t

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Post Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:02 pm

Re: new member. Am using Carver speakers only.

Are you sure the buzzzzzz is originating at the ribbon or is the ribbon just revealing it ?
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Garyspang

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Location: Central, SC

Post Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:31 pm

Re: new member. Am using Carver speakers only.

I am sure it is the ribbon.
The long ribbons are used presently in a minimum baffle as stand-alones along with a DOMINATOR D-10 subwoofer. The original woofers blew all the foam surrounds to shreds watching MATRIX 3, have replacement woofers in boxes, ready for installation.
Thanks for the numerous suggestions. I will need some time to act on them.
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OBI56

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Post Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:22 pm

Re: new member. Am using Carver speakers only.

Garyspang wrote:I am sure it is the ribbon.
The long ribbons are used presently in a minimum baffle as stand-alones along with a DOMINATOR D-10 subwoofer. The original woofers blew all the foam surrounds to shreds watching MATRIX 3, have replacement woofers in boxes, ready for installation.
Thanks for the numerous suggestions. I will need some time to act on them.


You ARE using them with the Carver crossover or suitable electronic active crossover, right???
Why let facts or common sense get in the way of your opinions.
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Garyspang

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Location: Central, SC

Post Sun Mar 08, 2009 3:09 pm

Re: new member. Am using Carver speakers only.

Yes

(The buzz was there before I disassembled them from the original baffle and cross-over)

It is a very sharp digital high-pass filter similar to the analog Chebechev type without the phasing problems. The low cutoff for the ribbons is set for 100 Hz and the high cutoff for the subwoofer is set for 100 Hz.
The high damping factor of the amplifier gives the ribbons a smooth response, so that any resonances are not noticed by me.
The present work-around is the use of a center speaker (Klipsh, yes with a horn) so that speech and singing is not exiting the buzz. A lot of spacial imaging and some sound quality is lost as a tradeoff. The system is equalised automatically for a flat response with mike feedback to the amplifier

Thanks for your interest.
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Toy Maker

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Post Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:19 pm

Re: new member. Am using Carver speakers only.

None of the Carver ribbons are designed to go below 150Hz, you have them crossed way too low. That might be part of cause of the buzzing. If the ribbon is moving more than it is designed to you could be over stressing the kapton, which will in time stretch the mterials, to where they are loose, and WILL buzz... and or, the kapton is hitting he magnets inside if it is moving too much
Change your crossover point to 150 or 160hz.
I am betting the reason you did this was because the max crossover point for the sub you are using is 100hz...

NOT a very good matching driver... sorry
Whatever you do in life will be insignificant, but it's very important that you do it 'cause nobody else will

‎~You think Einstein walked around thinkin' everyone was a bunch of dumb shits?~

SHUT UP AND ENJOY THE MUSIC!
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stevewithrow

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Post Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: new member. Am using Carver speakers only.

Toy Maker wrote:None of the Carver ribbons are designed to go below 150Hz, you have them crossed way too low. That might be part of cause of the buzzing. If the ribbon is moving more than it is designed to you could be over stressing the kapton, which will in time stretch the mterials, to where thay are loose, and WILL buzz... and or, the kapton is hitting he magnets inside if it is moving too much
Change your crossover point to 150 or 160hz.
I am betting the reason you did this was because the max crossover point for the sub you are using is 100hz...

NOT a very good matching driver... sorry

Toymaker is right on about this , my ribbons cross at 150 HZ then roll off every thing alse to my sub . I believe along time ago Carver did at one point cross at 125 , but found this DID stress the ribbon .
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TNRabbit

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Post Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:33 pm

Re: new member. Am using Carver speakers only.

Garyspang wrote:I am sure it is the ribbon.
The long ribbons are used presently in a minimum baffle as stand-alones along with a DOMINATOR D-10 subwoofer. The original woofers blew all the foam surrounds to shreds watching MATRIX 3, have replacement woofers in boxes, ready for installation.
Thanks for the numerous suggestions. I will need some time to act on them.


Are you planning to put them back together in the original configuration? What woofers are you replacing the originals with?
TNRabbit
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From FrankieD's lips to your ears: Sunfire - a quiet box of endless power.

Sunfire TG-IV/400~7 Amp
Carver SD/A-360 CDP
Benchmark DAC-1
Sony SACD/DVD-A
Active bi-amp: Ashly XR-1001 & 2 Rane PEQ-15s
Main: HotRodded AL-IIIs
Sub: Klipsch RT-12d
Center: Sunfire CRS-3c
Surround: Sunfire CRS-3 (x 2)

OconeeOrange wrote:"Gary likes to play it 'loud' as do I. His system begs you turn it up until you die"

RIP WIlliam B. Dibble, 1948-2012. I'll miss you my friend.
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Garyspang

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Location: Central, SC

Post Sun Mar 08, 2009 9:50 pm

Re: new member. Am using Carver speakers only.

The replacement woofers are WP1220 from Dynavox.
I have enough for two platinums and two silvers.
If I ever find my original hardware (angle brackets and screws and new binding post mounting plates) (the original plates cracked beyond use for no good reason) burried in a box somewhere, I will reassemble them.
But first a permanent fix for the occasional buzz has to be found. Several suggestions given already will be tried. Thanks.
The original patent describes the factory assembly procedure in detail, but it has no hints what to do if a problem develops. Kapton is a fantastic high temperature insulating film that can tolerate the insane high power and associated heat generated by the ribbon conductors. I want to keep it.
I will do a frequency test and find the buzzing frequency and spot. Then I have to find an old GENERAL RADIO (GR) stroboscope, syncronise it to the applied frequency and watch the bad spot in slow motion under the GR strobe light. This will show me the exact problem. Maybe then I can figure out a permanent fix. If you know of an old GR stroboscope please let me know.
Sorry about the wordlyness of my reply, but the subject is very important to me. Great stereo or surround sound is hard to find. Carver found it for me.
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Toy Maker

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Post Sun Mar 08, 2009 10:16 pm

Re: new member. Am using Carver speakers only.

Don't mean to sound too cut and dry, but they just get old and warn over the years...
Think of it as "re-coning"

I won't suggest taking it apart.

The best thing you can do is have DaveS rebuild it/them for you...
They will be as good as new.
Whatever you do in life will be insignificant, but it's very important that you do it 'cause nobody else will

‎~You think Einstein walked around thinkin' everyone was a bunch of dumb shits?~

SHUT UP AND ENJOY THE MUSIC!
╭∩╮(︶︿︶)╭∩╮
<<

Garyspang

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Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:54 pm

Location: Central, SC

Post Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:50 am

Re: new member. Am using Carver speakers only.

Thanks,
That is the best suggestion I had so far. Will have to find out if DaveS uses KAPTON and if it is reasonable in todays enviroment. Only found someone in FL doing this, but he did not use KAPTON. This bulletin board is very slick, have to find out how to get a private message to DaveS. Discussing business in public is not my style.
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TNRabbit

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Post Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:17 am

Re: new member. Am using Carver speakers only.

The "SOMEONE in FL" is DaveS or Toy Maker. They are the only ones on the planet that repair ribbons, so my knowledge. And yes, they use KAPTON.

Also, what the heck is that in your avatar???


Image
TNRabbit
Image

From FrankieD's lips to your ears: Sunfire - a quiet box of endless power.

Sunfire TG-IV/400~7 Amp
Carver SD/A-360 CDP
Benchmark DAC-1
Sony SACD/DVD-A
Active bi-amp: Ashly XR-1001 & 2 Rane PEQ-15s
Main: HotRodded AL-IIIs
Sub: Klipsch RT-12d
Center: Sunfire CRS-3c
Surround: Sunfire CRS-3 (x 2)

OconeeOrange wrote:"Gary likes to play it 'loud' as do I. His system begs you turn it up until you die"

RIP WIlliam B. Dibble, 1948-2012. I'll miss you my friend.
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