I'm not sure that cryo is always a good choice for tubes. I find that it often gives a more brittle, solid-state type presentation. It might be OK in a soft/warm circuit, but for something more modern like the VTA ST70 or VTL ST85's, my Siemens 12at7's sounded better without cryo treatment. On the other hand, the SED =C= EL34's are very good with it, so maybe it's a crap shoot. Only one way to find out, I guess...
Hey Tyson! Your AC scotch thread is famous over at Head-Fi as well.
I've cryo'd thousands of tubes, most of the tubes I do these days are from return customers, so they must like the results. I have a cstomer who sent me a NOS quad of WE 300B's one time and then sent me more of the same after the first four. The first go 'round must have went well!
For my personal gear, I've had good success thus far with cryo'd tubes. Some tubes it made a large difference (Winged C EL34's, Sovtek 5AR4's, Russian 6C45P's, RCA 12FK6, Siemens EF80 and Chinese 6BM8's), and with some it only made a 'slight" difference (RCA clear top 12AU7, Chinese 5AR4 and a Russian EZ81).
I will be experimenting with Mullard GZ34's, some Amperex BB EZ80's, some BB 12AU7's, some assorted other EZ80's, some Mullard EF86's, some Genalex KT77's, and more, over the next few weeks/months so I can talk intelligently about the results after these are done and burned in.
FWIW--I have personally found that tubes (or most anything else for that matter) that goes through cryo, needs to be run in for quite a while after to really open up again. Also, different cryo processes produce different results.
In any event, the above is all my opinion and what I hear, I don't want to turn this into an ad for my services and business, so I'll shut up.
As an aside, I have had the amp on now, non stop 24 hours a day, for 3-4 weeks with nary a problem or complaint from the amp, or the tubes. So, reliability on these tubes seems to be good.
Sorry for the delay in posting my thoughts, it has been a crazy few weeks around here.
However, following are a few thoughts from my listening sessions the past few weeks.
The Shuguang tubes are 'broken in', finally (!), I think. I haven't noticed much change the past week, or so, I think they have finally leveled off and are sounding like they are supposed to, ie, GREAT!
All comments are compared to the stock (not cryo'd) SED Winged C's:
Bass is tight and tuneful, while going much deeper.
Highs are much more extended and pure. Not splashy at all like they were with the SED's. Cymbals sound like cymbals, not like
"escaping steam", which is a pet peeve of mine.
Midrange is close in purity and smoothness to the SED's (which are VERY good in this area), but more transparent, which allows one to 'see' into the stage and sound scape more clearly and allows the illusion of space to really develop. In addition, spatial cues are easier to identity which allows firm placement of instruments and/or performers within the stage.
The last week, or so, I have been finding it harder to listen critically and find myself just drawn into the music as the emotion of the artist is really coming through. This doesn't happen to me a lot with budget gear, as I am pretty jaded, so consider it high praise, indeed.
More to come. However, suffice to say that these are remarkable tubes and are keepers and, IMO, well worth the money. They are more akin to a component upgrade than a tube upgrade, to my mind.
Next up, I will cryo these bad boys and report on how they sound after they are broken in. I should have them cryo'd and back in the amp within 2-3 weeks.
While they are in cryo, I will pop in some cryo'd Winged C's and then some stock Genalex KT77's for a bit of fun.
More to come, soon!
Can someone move this thread to whatever forum ends up taking its place, please? I have people that PM me to make sure I am updating it, at least once in a while, so maybe there is some interest out there. I don't have any interest in self aggrandizement and would have let the thread just die, but now that some are interested, I want to follow through.
Quote from: JakeJ on March 19, 2009, 02:49:39 PM
I am hoping they turn out to be sonically as good as advertised and have a long life (10,000 hours or better) as a set would last me darn near forever with a bit of tube rolling.
Sonically, they are every bit as good as advertised.
I, too, hope they last 10k hours! I have some Mullard 5AR4'S in the amp that should last forever as well, that would be great if the only tubes I ever had to replace were the driver and phase splitter!
OK, finally got the Shuguang's into cryo today. Should have them out early next week, so will be reporting some results soon--right now I have put the cryo'd Winged C's back in the amp to refresh my aural memory. Will pop the Genalex 77's in the amp soon.
Quote from: lonewolfny42 on April 02, 2009, 11:38:22 PM
What speakers are you running with the Eastern Electric M520 ? Thanks...
Lately, the past two weeks or so, I've been grooving on a set of Eminent Tech LFT-16's, there is a great synergy between the M520 and those. Any one who visited my room at the first couple of RMAF's can attest to that. However, my main passive set is custom pair of passive Sonicweld's (all of the Sonicweld's are active) that I commissioned so I could listen to tube amps on an ultra high resolution speaker to be able to easily identify any changes.
I have also tried three different sets of Whiplash Audio full range single driver speakers, a pair of Acoustat's (at LOW volumes, ha!), a big 'ol honking pair of Klipsch "something or other" that are incredibly sensitive, and some other assorted Infinity, some assorted British speakers, and some others that I have laying around at the shop, or the house.
I just got the Shuguang Treasure's out of cryo today, so I will post some impressions on them after a bit of break in time.
OK, quick update time.
Getting some good burn in time on the cryo'd Shuguang Treasure 6CA7's and they are stunning. Even more stunning than they were in stock form, quieter, more low level detail, sweeter highs and tighter bass. So, this time, on these tubes, my cryo profile made a nice improvement.
Yeah, I know, I cryo stuff and that may make me biased, so take the above for what it is worth. I really have no interest in promoting the cryo treatment part of my business to individual audiophiles though, as it is way too hard to make money doing piecemeal work, so keep that in mind also. I also have no business ties to Grant Fidelity, or Shuguang, which I've stated before.
In any event, I am incredibly impressed with the Shuguang Treasure 6CA7's, especially when cryo'd. They are clearly better (in this amp) than the SED Winged C's that they replaced. Expensive? Yes. Worth it? Yes, at least to me.
Next up, I will compare the Genalex KT77's with the Shuguang's. However, I am slow, so it will be a while. This should be the most interesting part of the comparison and the Gen's are very good as well.
FYI--the rest of the tube complement I have been using in the Eastern Electric M520 is: Cryo'd Mullard GZ34, date code f32 (2), Cryo'd Amperex Bugle Boy 12AU7 (2) and Cryo'd Genalex EF86 (2).
Have had the Genalex KT-77's in for a few days now, maybe have 75-100 hours on them. I want to let them break in quite a bit more before I make any detailed comments, however, I will say that the Gen's are quite good in this amp as well. The Gen's are starting to open up and the bass is finally coming around, so I have hope that the next hundred hours, or so, will allow these to start to shine.
I really missed the Shuguang's the first few days. They are quite special (I'm just now beginning to realize how special), if you can afford them, buy a set. No, I don't sell them, ha!
So, I'll update this thread from time to time with impressions as the Gen's break in.
Ok.......thats all. There was a ton of babble back and forth.....but I picked out what I thought would be interesting.
AudioCircle is a pretty good site.....check it out if you like:http://www.audiocircle.com/